Good afternoon, Ms. Ganser. If you could please state your name for the record. Well, let's first have the witness sworn in by the court reporter. Oh, has she not, Ms. Ganser? Please swear. I swear to rank and honor, the defendant is on the swear of the testimony I have outstripped in this matter, that the evidence is nothing but the truth, so I have the right to be a witness. Okay, would you give your name to the court reporter right now? Just before we begin, I say.

Wait, wait, wait a minute. I'm conducting this deposition. Would you please give your name to the court reporter? I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to.

I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I'm conducting this deposition. Would you please give your name to the court? Before you even begin, I'm going to be posing an objection. I see here two tape recorders. I'd like to know what they're about.

Please give your name to the court, according to this answer. I'm going to instruct you not to answer right now. This answer, are you represented by legal counsel today? Yes. And who is that legal counsel? Mr. Horn. And when did you retain him? I am entitled to inquire. No, we're not going to proceed. I'm entitled to inquire. Stop. Is this going to be reported or is it not going to be reported? And wait a second. When were you retained by Mr. Horn? Okay, before you answer any more questions, we're going to resolve the issue now of the tape recordings like we had last time on April 18, 1991 with Mr. Burr. We're going to figure out, I see the court reporter has one, I see Mr. Eckrich has one.

So what's your question? Who's going to be reporting it and under what section of reason? We are entitled to record it by several, for a truth, several sections. Ms. Yen, sir, before we go on, are you... We're not going on. Wait a minute. We're not going on. Wait a minute. We can determine who and what and when she retained you. I've been retained by her, I'm her lawyer and I'm representing her. When?

I can't make a record of that. I know. It's irrelevant when, we're going to get the issue of the tape recording resolved right now. If we don't resolve the recording then we're going to leave. Well then you'll be faced with yet another motion. That's an issue that we'll address at the time the motions are brought. Ms. Yenichur, when did you retain Mr. Orn? Okay, let's go. Are these gonna be recorded or are they not gonna be recorded?

Because we're not- What do you think? Did you read the deposition notice? We're not gonna go around and around and through this again. There are two trick recordings here. I don't know what Mr. Eckert is doing with his recording. I don't know what the reporter is doing with hers. The reporter is taking it down by stenographic machine. That's fine. If the reporter can't take it all down by stenographic machine, has to record it, then she can put that on the record too.

But we're not going to allow Mr. Ecker to record it if he is in fact recording it, and we're going to maintain the same position that we maintained last month. So if Mr. Ecker intends on recording it, let me know now. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS Did you read the deposition notice? MR. HORNE Does Mr. Ecker intend on recording it? CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS Mr. Horne, would you answer my question? Did you read the deposition notice? MR. HORNE Does Mr. Ecker intend to record this deposition? CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS Whose deposition is this? Does Mr. Ecker intend to record this deposition?

Did you read the deposition notice, Mr. Horn? Does Mr. Ecker intend to record this, yes or no? Mr. Horn, if you quit your juvenile antics, maybe we could get on with this deposition. What do you think? We're not going to proceed before I get an answer. I'd like to know the reason. Did you read the deposition notice? I'll answer your question with a question. It's very clearly stated in the deposition notice that this will be recorded. And I'm not even required to do that. Because it's for his personal use.

Is Mr. Eckerman going to record this for his personal use? Yes or no? What do you think? Do you see something here? Do you see something here? What do you think? When you respond to that question we'll know if we're going to proceed or not. Oh I see and so what if I respond in the positive? Then we're going to do what we did in Mr. Berg's deposition and we're going to get up and walk off. Oh boy, you really are one for that aren't you? Well I can guarantee you Mr. Horn that you are going to be brought into court by a motion to compel and a motion for sanctions not only for the burp deposition that you missed today the one you missed on April 18th and if you cause this witness to leave you're going to be brought up on a motion for that I guarantee you it assures the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West so I'm not going to get involved in that at your account my question is is mr. Ecker going to record this or isn't it I see you make your own editorial comments you won't get involved in the others is mr. Ecker going to record this or isn't it?

Do you see the recorder out to you? I see it when I hear it, I don't know if it's activated or not. If it doesn't record it, then I want to remove the tape, and if the court reporter is going to record it, then I want to ascertain the reason the court reporter is going to record it, and if she's recording it for herself or somebody else. And so, what is your legal basis for objecting? You have the code section open before you, you can look at 2025. I've looked at 2025. Great.

What part of 2025 are you referring to? Take a look at L and subdivisions that follow thereafter. So what about it? My question is, is Mr. Eck going to record this for his personal use? No. The question I have for you is on what basis are you basing your objection? What is your basis for your objection? If this is going to go forward, I want to know, is Mr. Eck going to record this? Yes or no? And my answer to you is use your two eyes and look on the table and see what you see. Yes or no?

That's all I'm asking. Ms. Hintzer, have you retained Mr. Horn? She is not going to answer any of your questions until we can ascertain the purpose of the recordings. Mr. Horn, you know, last time we gave you the opportunity to stipulate and you did not take it. And you did so unjustifiably. Then you walked out of the deposition. That's your opinion. Yes, and I'm going to state my opinion and I'm going to state what we're going to do.

Right now you have the opportunity to go forward with the deposition. We're all here. We've come at cost and at expense to our client to be here. And we are going to move for sanctions and I guarantee you that we will do that. And hopefully the court will see our way and grant those sanctions. You can stop yourself serving comments. My question is, is Mr. Eckers going to record this deposition? Yes or no? Did you read the deposition notice? Yes or no? Is Mr. Eckers going to record this? What do you think? The deposition notice states that it will be audio recorded. We have two recordings here now. We have Mr. Eckers and we have the report. So, what's the problem with that? What's your problem with that?

We're going to be leaving unless we get an answer. You have gotten an answer. It's in the deposition notice. So you knew about it before you even came down here. Is Mr. Ecker going to be recording this? I have no problem if the court reporter is going to record it for her purposes and use the court reporting for her purposes only and the tape will follow the code with what happened. That's fine. If Mr. Ecker intends to record this, we're not going to sit here. Well, we haven't gotten to the part yet where the operator will state his identity and the business address and the like on the recording. And if that's what you're waiting for, are you waiting for that? Is that what you're waiting for?

Is Mr. Ecker going to record this, yes or no? You have the answer in the deposition notice. I have the answer that the court reporter is going to record it. I don't know if mr. Ecker is going to record this that's your assumption it might be and if it's wrong I want to be corrected right now before we leave you show is mr. Ecker going to record this I've answered your question no you haven't it's the same as before nothing has changed. If you want to take that to be an affirmative, then you take that to be an affirmative. But this is going to be audio tape. This is going to go to the script. That's fine. There's an audio tape before the court reporter. I want to know if the court reporter is going to record it after I find out if Mr. Eckert is going to record it.

If you're not going to disclose that information, then we'll get up and leave. It's been disclosed to you. No, it hasn't. Stop avoiding the issue. Is Mr. Eckert going to record it or not? What do you think? Well, we also have a woman here who's present in the room whose identity it has been disclosed who wasn't indicated in the notice to be here. Have you even bothered to ask before the deposition? I haven't gotten past the tick recording issue. Well, then we don't need to go any further if you're going to stop at that, is that it? My question is, you've read the deposition notice presumably.

In it, we indicate that it will be audio taped. And we are prepared to go forward and state the identity of the operators on the tape. And if you have a problem with that, then good luck to you because you'll need it in court. Thank you for your editorial comment. I see there's one reporter, a court reporter, and I want to know, is Mr. Ecker going to record this for his personal use? Yes or no? I have not given you the answer. I don't know what your answer is and until I find out the answer this deposition is not going to be followed. We're ready to proceed with the deposition. Well. Are you? I am if Mr. Ecker is not going to record and I find that the operator who is going to record is the court reporter.

Mr. Ecker is a qualified person, confident to operate an audio tape device. And he is prepared right now to state on his audio tape that he is to do so and will do so. But it doesn't matter because in any event, Section 2025L does not apply. Excuse me, don't cut me off. Does not apply to people who are just recording for their own personal use. That's our position. And is the court reporter also going to record this for her own purposes, as well as take it down on shorthand? I don't know. This is the first I've seen of that machine. I can't answer that question.

Mr. Porter, are you going to record this as well? Can I go up to the record because I can't write on the record? No, you can write on the record. It's kind of tough to record before we talk and write. Are you going to record this? Yes. For what purpose? If another tape is going, I prefer to have one installed for my own purpose. Oh, okay. So you don't need to... I have to...

You didn't ask Mr. Eckert if Grayden hit a recorder here today, did you? No, not at all. Thank you. So Mr. Eckert is going to record it? And you've read the notice. My question is, Mr. Eckert is going to record it, is that correct? You can head for the door if that's what you're wanting to do. Well, I would suggest that you stay. Let's finish the deposition and go forward with it. I'm not going to allow this tape to go into hands that I don't know what's going to happen with it, how it's going to happen with it.

And as far as I'm concerned, the court reporter is quite competent to take it down both audibly and cinegraphically. So if Mr. Ecker is going to take this deposition on his personal recorder for his own personal use, we are not staying. Well, I disagree with your position. I'm giving you the opportunity to stay because this tape recording is only for Mr. Eckers' own personal use, the device that he has. It is not for use in court. I'm willing once again to stipulate with you here and now, unconditionally, no holds barred, that that tape will be used for his personal use only. And I question what you're going to do with that tape too. I agree with you that the court reporter is competent to take down the testimony, but that's not the issue here. The issue is whether or not a party to the lawsuit has the right to audio tape record for his own personal use, a deposition that's being conducted to which this party is part of.

And we submit that he is, and that you are doing nothing more than stalling on all discovery in this case. It's been the situation from day one and we are just going to have to go into court for two reasons. One, to bring the motion let me don't interrupt me to bring the motion and also for a motion for stay of the trial date if necessary. We're more than happy to proceed with the trial when it comes time but if you're going to constantly delay discovery from your client, then we have no choice but to go in and try to stay a trial date until we get such discovery. And that's what we'll do. You can go into court and we'll bail it out in court. I don't have a problem with that at all.

As far as discovery, Mr. Burb is here, ready, willing, and able to testify. And today we have this witness here, ready, willing, and able to testify. Your client has made the decision to do something with a tape recording and who knows what he's going to do with it. I'm not going to sit here and allow a tape recording to get out into the general public and be used for whatever purpose he decides to use it for. The deposition transcript is the official transcript. If Mr. Ecker wants to plaster that everywhere and anywhere, that's fine. But I'm not going to allow a tape recording and as such, if it's going to be used, as you are steadfastly contending it will be, we are going to leave. So we're giving you one last chance. If Mr. Ecker doesn't record it and we stay, or if Mr. Ecker records it, we leave. And, as I told you, we are willing to stipulate right here and now that it will be for Mr. Ecker's and Mrs. Ecker's own private and personal use.

I'm not going to allow that. And your basis is entirely on section 2025 L. No, it's under the code. You can read the code. Let's go. We're going. And the court report is reflected. I don't care. It's your choice. Closing? Yeah. Okay.

Don't put it back down. No. So... Off the record now? Yeah. Sure you want to take your coat? I'd like to introduce this exhibit to the position transfer. I'm sorry I'm sorry for you I'm getting used to it It's been 3 years, 4 years I'm in it against you You can have that that came from the facts machine, but what I'm thinking is the deposition notice for Don Yencer.

I thought that, again, they have the face page, so that, otherwise, they would sneak a little card. That was on the day for my PPO. In fact, what happened is he called me, he wrote me a letter and he said, it's not fair, just go off to do something at 1.30am. And I said, and then I realized that there had been a typo by the secretary, and I said, well, it's in the after writing, I'll tell you right now. It's at 1.30pm. And he said, well, we won't accept that. We just won't look for it. So, but I was able to tell him that, convince him that we would, that would not be appropriate.

So, anyway, let's see let me find the other the other deposition notice for Donnie Yen sir which I don't think I have but I thought I did it's in the one file that I didn't bring but you have a face page at least I'm not sure if Steven Berg is on. You have Christine Berg. You should have had it for the Donna Yancey also. I have the subpoena. You have the subpoena on there? Yeah. Okay. You didn't make that exhibit with my certificate.

No, I did not just do it with Christine Berg. Well then, if you could have that as an exhibit and I'll call and get in touch with that. Okay, do you want to just stay on there? Oh yeah. Also as an exhibit to the deposition transcript, I want to have attached the dependents notice of deposition and for production of documents of Donnie Yetzer, which notices her deposition for today's day at 2 p.m. at Frank Nelson and Associates, 14th and Chapala Street, Santa Barbara, California. Such a deposition notice should be attached to an exhibit to this transcript.

and please just attempt to do that. And let me call right now, I'll pass these plans back to you. Sure. I was hoping that you'd talk to me about it. Yeah, well, you're right. You can't hear yourself dialing. You know, you're going to lose the channel of the leads. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to try hard to remain on negative.

oh it's me you know the other thing we don't have and I thought I definitely did have this nurse position so I need to tax that down to the same number it's a really good 805-564-7034 and you can pass it right away so we can do it before she rolls out of here. Yeah, not the deposition subpoena, the deposition notice. There you have the deposition subpoena. Right, okay. I mean, yes, she showed up 30 more minutes than they lasted. About 10 minutes. No, sorry, about 5 minutes.

Yeah, well, he doesn't like taking 40 minutes. The proof might get out. he can't he can't miss them all I'm sorry you know I was in two minds here whether to bring one for myself or not and I thought it might come to me yeah he can't and I knew it was going to go away yeah you know if you were smart to do it I don't know that's what a good reporter would do just in case there was something I knew happened you have them have it but I appreciate maybe one of these days I do apologize to you for talking over him sometimes Yeah, I turned it off.

I'll wait for that. It should come in almost like now. She's just going right to the machine to process it. Great. Thanks. Thanks. I'll tell you one thing I would appreciate if you put right up at the top of the list. And that's an amendment for every year. For a quiet title action because that turkey he is going to play dirty all the time yeah he will he has no real sense of fair play that means that it is rotten to the core if you've got to go that far to protect the slugs that have created the problem Well, you know, it's obvious that if they had gone on, it would have been very destructive anyway.

So I wouldn't know if it probably got too much out of her except more grist for the motion mill. So we'll see. So your question is going right to the heart of the matter. And I hope your next question will be, and who is paying Mr. Horn? No. That's true. Because there's, you know, when did you retain mr. Hong a and b who's going to pay two questions that would disqualify that whole arrangement you'd never get an answer probably not So, it's definitely going to be a motion on all three depositions. Yippee.

If we get all the way to court and we haven't had a deposition, we can require that they testify, can't we? Absolutely. I'd like to see him try to pull this in the courtroom. Unless he has a judge in his pocket. Not too likely to screw the court. No. Not too likely. And maybe that's the best way to go. No, we need to know more too. There's a ton of stuff in that... There's got to be a lot of stuff in that home federal thing. Uh huh.

You know, true. Do we have to name them to get into there? Well, we will be naming them. No, you don't have to name them. So... Can you just... They're in San Diego. Can you just call down there and say I'm investigating such and such. They would never. You'd have to go in there with a piece of paper.

Yeah, with a subpoena and it would be bought. But that's okay. That's what this case has been from the beginning. You know better than me. So... The citizens of the United States are not going to run out of money. So let's go right ahead. Okay, well then we'll just go full bore on the whole thing. Claude as much as you can. Yeah, Claude's a good influence. Yeah, because he really lists things 80 ways, upside and downside and crossways, which is good. And so, yeah, at some point we'll have to take him down to Tehachapi to meet with the guys. So what I'd like to do actually at some point, maybe Tehachapi is a good meeting place, is just get everyone there and do one big strategy session and get it down, You guys can be there, maybe close to the tree house if you don't mind.

Or some other place, and just go through it. Keep a clock down there, shoot it up in the line. If I'm going to end up driving or something, I might as well take a cold candy. Sure, bring Karen and the bird. Yeah, Karen and the bird. Well, the bird might like being in the aviary. He might like being in the aviary. I don't know how he would take the other birds though, that's the only thing. He needs some place like that. I want to look at yours again and build one very similar because I like the way it was done.

Build it out on the property. So, it's funny when he walked out the door I kind of got the feeling he was waiting to be shot in the back. I think he's locked out up until now. Well it did change with the hearings and the appellate decision. Yeah, I think so. A rat in a corner. But they're dangerous. Yeah, they're dangerous well we'll see the rat reacts the new lawsuits filed so anyway anything else we need to go over you guys came along thank you very much we've laid on her our constitutional ideas and I really think you ought to get quad to read this I will I mean I wish we bought some more coffee oh you know the one you know because they Do you need us to get out of the camera?

No, this is Wes up there and it's the correction that you have. Oh yes, thank you very much. And thank you. We didn't make as much time as you wanted. Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you. In fact, we've... There's an accountant that has been in touch with us that would like to, I don't know if he is also a lawyer or if he works with lawyers, I don't remember enough about it. I read the letter but it just gone. Hatton had said something, well he had quoted Dr. Larson as saying that the OMB numbers on the 1040 farms.

Oh, that was Dr. Scott, Neil Scott. Yeah, I've read about one third of that so far. Well, I'm not sure about the OMB numbers, but Dr. Scott, well, I think maybe he's been talking with George maybe about handling this stuff. Anyway, this accountant had been following the journals now for quite a while and he said so far well yes the best for me don't mind the sheer ease oh yeah please do it well that's for today yeah so what it is is it's in the fortune and I just didn't have one my father thank you He said that of all the stuff that he's read, that was the only thing, and that one had been accurate, but the IRS got busy.

On the OMB? Yeah, the OMB numbers. Did they correct it? Yeah, they corrected it. So that one's out, but he sure would like to be a part of whatever we're doing. Well, it would be interesting. I could see, I just have to put together a projected budget for the Constitutional Law Center and see, because I had a good talk with George about it. I don't know if he discussed any of that with you, but I know he would discuss it with me before I talked to him about it.

The main question is that, you know, if I were to do it, I have to think long and hard about its effect on my life. Well, yeah, it would just take your life. You know, so I don't know yet whether I'm prepared to do that. I've sort of thrived on anonymity. Even my law office phone number is unlisted. I thought you were one of the few unlisted attorneys. But anyway, George seems to think there would be no problem with money so when the people willing to do it to get someone like Claude and you get some others and I have others in mind slash when more attorneys might want to get involved I just think a lot of people know the reason, but they'll hopefully for philosophical reasons as much as anything.

But I guess when it transits, you get to pick it a little closer to you. So that's a distinct possibility. I just have been so busy, probably on the alligator side, I haven't had time to train the squad for such things. You have to ask Maladie if she's going to think about training the squad. So one of these days, Ulrike was telling me about her attorney friend who works in the mornings and then reads detective novels in the afternoons. I was thinking, boy, what a nice guy. But he's pretty smart. She was saying, although not directly, but my implication was smarter than me, because he makes sure he gets the...

I didn't, he's much older than you. Oh, is he? So he's learned his lessons. And he doesn't want to have too much money, so he's cut down. Well, then instead of working long hours for little money, he works a few hours for the little money. Exactly. I say, he's very different from me. In fact, one of the things I had to do to make sure I was here on time was Ulrich and I met with someone, a messenger in opposition to a motion to set aside a lien. I had this quantitative workbook for years, promising him, hey, naïve, stupid me.

And as soon as he got the settlement check, he took the money and ran. And so I put a lien on the case that he was getting another settlement on, but trying to get it taken off. So, I had to deal with that. So, anyway, that's not one thing. That's why I appreciate you guys all the more, because I've never had a problem before. And so I did first priority to the clients who were that way. And I had one client who was falling behind by two months of previously good really like you to get on this right away I said well you know mr. X huh be happy to but I have to be a priority to the clients who think that goes so as soon as I get a check I'll be happy with you so I got a check the next day I was not too far away.

Unfortunately, I was not. It's a shame. Karen's always on me to be tough. She's more the tough one on that. She loves you guys. I bet. So, anyway. But, no, I think there are grounds for doing things. I'm sorry again if we hadn't taken care of it in advance. I think he was ready to go off or something.

Oh yeah, it doesn't matter, you have the right to be here because you're working in my office. You have the right to be there. But he was already... Oh yeah, but it didn't matter. He came in and who are you? Did he ask you? Oh yeah. Did you tell her? Yes. And what did you say?

I said that I was in your office, a German lawyer, and I was doing an internship with you. Good. And that my name wasn't Luka. Yeah. That was all I told him. So he already knew the name. Huge problem. So when he said he didn't know, then he was lying. He was lying. Yeah.

Exactly. For the record. Yeah. Interesting. He didn't write that one. Well, I still am old-fashioned enough in my 60 years to feel like right will out. I have to believe that truth and integrity will ultimately rebuild our nation. Well, I think so. I'd just like it to be in my lifetime. Well, so would I.

And you've got a longer lifetime out there. Well, I don't know. I've been working myself into early grades. I've got to do something about that. But, I don't know. We shall see. And see what happens. So you're going home tonight? No. Well, actually, I don't know yet but no I know I won't be going tonight tomorrow because I don't know yet where that arbitration I should probably call the finest made of very soon So in that case, it may suck to the other side.

So I think it's... I'm just, you know, this guy never ceases to amaze me. I'm just so like... What do you think? What's your reading of that? Or let's get the German viewpoint. American lawyers are much more aggressive. Really? But they have not acted like that? Never. It was the play who was in charge here. It was the only question.

Yeah, it's true. Who answers whose question. That was part of it. I was going to be damned if I was going to answer his with that answer. There's a trap in there somewhere. Yes, there was. I think so. But he got the deposition notice, it's part of the record, so he knows the answer, and he would have loved to have been there. So he was preparing all of that.

Well, of course he's not spending his money. That's right. That's not coming out of his pocket. RTC's got deep pockets. Yeah. Yeah, they have our money. Yeah, I know. That's what I was going to say. Sort of like when I was going to school in France and paying only $24 a year to go to the university. And people say, oh, that's great. I say, yeah, but I feel sorry for the French peasant toiling in his fields who's paying my way to be in the university, because that's who's paying for this.

It's not some entity called the government who's coming out of someone's pocket somewhere. And $24 certainly doesn't pay the cost of a year. It doesn't pay the cost of that institution, no matter how many students go there. Sort of like that fake commercial where they give the first city change bank that will make change for you and people who want change. It was on Saturday Night Live, which you probably don't watch, but they were asked how they make money, how do they stay in the business making money. music that I change for people and said oh it's we do it on volume that's how they make it. Oh yeah we do it on volume.

So in Germany they wouldn't have done that. Thank you.

