This is 1997, and it is amazing what kind of remarkable questions I get. Well, we just can't believe you, you know. Who do we believe? Doris says she's 65, and you sat right up there in front of those people and said she's 66. Now, which is it? Well big damn deal. She was born on October 30th, 1931. Now how many months has it been, just generally counting since October of last year? Alright. We don't count like you count. Life begins when life is conceived.

That is birthday. And if you want to add nine months to sixty-five years plus six months, you see what you get. I get a little over 66 years old, having had no early or late-term abortion, you know. How can you go on in this moral decay? I'm going to repeat, because David hasn't heard my most irate statements about choice. Everyone always has choice, alternatives and choice. Every, every decision has a plethora of possible choices. But don't come complaining to me that you had to have a late-term abortion because that is woman's choice. Woman had her choice when she chose to lie down with the man. Start exercising your choices and responsibility, and I'll quit yelling at you. And they are not going to come in here and accuse anybody in this place, for there is no membership, there are individual people trying to assume responsibility, and sometimes you get careless about this, and I'm going to give you the lecture now on followers and leaders.

David Icke may be a leader, but he doesn't want to lead you anywhere. And if all you want out of life is just to follow somebody, please make it somebody else. If you want to assume the responsibility of improving the environment, the atmosphere, the whatever you are, and you are willing to do something responsible in all instances about it, then you are certainly welcome to be with us. But we're not going to pull you anywhere and we're not going to push you anywhere. And if you want to learn, whatever lessons might be learned while we are teaching, because whether she likes it or not, she's going to be taught. Because that was the commitment she made.

And David is willing to do to the very best of his ability, the responsible actions and thought processes and sharing because this is what he said, all right, sir, I'll do it. I can do that. I will do that. And you will notice that he will write some more and some more and some more. But that doesn't mean that he's willing to sit out in front of everybody, provide everything, do everything, think for everybody, and then get blamed for everything. We can either share in gaining knowledge, because knowledge in truth becomes the power. God gives you creative power that is offered by Creator.

And yes, there will always be the times that there will be someone better informed than you, and you might want to follow them if they know where they're going, especially if you're in a big city and you're trying to get somewhere, and they're in front of you. But don't dump your responsibility on their backs. I think we need to talk a little bit about frequencies. What am I? What are you? And basically, what is she? She's very much like a radio receiver, translator. Would you rather be doing something else? We are out of your visibility range. We are certainly never out of your communications range.

There are very certain frequencies. to be visualized, but basically in my position I don't enjoy being stuffed into one of your six foot frames very well, and that would only get all of you into far worse trouble. You think, oh but sir, if you would just, just twinkle down here. Now wouldn't that have been a dandy thing the other day in front of Extra? They would have passed out, number one. Number two, every cop in the county would have been here to haul you away. So if you will not be wise enough to realize the disadvantages of that, and we tease and laugh and share a lot about this, because Brent, you know, has promised to clean my ship. And so I'm going to hold him to it.

But I am not going to ever get you in trouble, deeper than you are. It just isn't going to happen. You can do well enough on your own. Rick especially. When HAILBOP came into pretty good viewing range, we were there, and we were there for quite a little while while we checked out to make sure that there wasn't anything really bad going to happen with that thing. You've got massive, massive light energy wadded up into that core. But it's basically no greater than a hologram, totally manipulated.

They have it on a timing device so that at any given period of time, it is rotating. So it is going, well, you are turning. And it's just there. Those are magnificently powerful lasers. They have produced color for you. You remember the one that was here a little while ago was just a very hazy blob of white light. This one's in living color. This one's a real beauty. But where they could ever imagine having a spacecraft that would get them to serious they could not be serious about it. That's all there is to it. Yes. Who manufactured or set up the tail line?

Oh Brent. Laughter Well, it's one I'm not going to answer. I hate to admit I don't know. So I'm just going to tell you I won't. Let's just say it's offshore. That's why you have no refraction from any light source on the globe like you would, say something over Phoenix. Remember Bluebeam? Yeah, well, you've got a lot of stuff from Earth's source out far enough in the cosmos Or isn't it just outside your atmosphere to create that?

Anyone else want to ask something more reasonable? Yes Yes, in a sense yes. It isn't tied in as much with Hale-Bopp per se as it is more people are looking up and so you're going to be shown more often and you will notice that the skies are full of us now, absolutely full. If you look in any given direction, you're going to find eight or ten in any direction now. And always the spotted ones around your, what we would call your horizon. David, are you going to let him off the hook. I can spend time with David any time he wants. Okay, well I just want to take some questions about anything you want to ask about and then we'll take it from there and see where it goes. I'd just like to say about the cult thing first of all, that in And the Truth that In And The Truth Shall Set You Free, which I wrote over a year ago or so, there's a chapter in that called Cult Or Con, which looks at Jonestown, it looks at the solar temple, it looks at the thing in Japan with the gas in the underground, and makes the point that what I believe is happening, and has been happening for some time, and it actually does say in the book that we should expect more of these mass suicides and cult stories.

Because I think what was called in the book 1984, George Orwell, I think he called it newspeak. Power of words is something that I think we need to understand a bit more. The power of a word to instantly create a reaction. So what's been happening for some time, it seems to me, is that the word cult has been systematically undermined. And if you look at the dictionary definition of the word cult, then you find that any... the Roman Catholic Church is a cult. Because the definition is that any group of people who worship a deity or an entity or whatever. And so, it seems to me that what's happened systematically is the word cult has been discredited in the public mind and got to mean by reflex action, mad, nutters, dangerous.

And once you've established the word and its meaning to reflex action, mental response, you then start applying that to anything you wish to discredit. There's a guy in California who has an infamous record of mind controlling for the CIA called Louis Jolion West. And in published papers, he not only mind controls people and creates cults he also is the leading light or a leading light in an organisation called the Cult Awareness Network, CAN which is supposed to uncover cults and having discredited the word cult, Jolion West in published papers says that cults, well crikey, few people in the establishment know all about them. Spiritualist cults, Zen and other Sino-Japanese philosophical cults, race cults, flying saucer and outer space cults, psychological cults, like Kant presumably.

Political cults and certain communal and self-help or self-improvement groups that have become transformed into cults. I say in the book, what about the going to the shops to get tonight's dinner cult? That's about the only one missing there. And so you can see the start to being applied now. And of course I think to a certain extent or to a large extent that's been the response to what's happened to contact in recent days. And Jolly and West is an interesting background because he was the man who was given the job of producing a psychological profile of Patty Hearst when she came out of the Symbionese Liberation Organisation. And when I was travelling through America last fall, I read in a newspaper that Timothy McVeigh was having a psychological profile done on him by Louis Jolion West. So if you look at them and you look at people who are very close associates of his called Dr. Martin Orne, who operates out of the University of Philadelphia, who is another CIA mind controller linked to the cult awareness network and also one of the founding members and the founders of the false memory syndrome scam, which is designed to try to discredit the multiple personality disorder people who are now beginning to remember.

Kathy O'Brien is a classic example and the most prominent example, but more and more, the compartments are breaking down and they're beginning to remember. And so, what we're looking at here is an ongoing group of people who have worked, first of all, to mind control people to create cults in their definition of the word and then now we're starting to see the word cult apply to any organisation they wish to discredit and I think that what happened down in San Diego was the most obvious expression of this that I've kind of seen. It's not even subtle. I mean the way they cover these stories now just so obviously states their belief in the ease with which you can get anyone to believe anything. Because when you look at it from an open-minded perspective, the way they're trying to sell these stories, I mean, when the thing happened with contact, I watched that story and I thought, what the heck are they trying to tell me? But they're not trying to tell me anything.

They're just trying to give me an awareness that links contact with cults. That's all they're trying to get me to do and that's all they're trying to get the people to do. Just make that connection. Contact. Oh yeah, they're a cult. I went through this myself in Britain when I was dubbed as the Messiah, the guy who was claiming to be Jesus. Now, they didn't have to put any serious background to that. They just had to get that instant response. They'd be like, ah, thinks he's Jesus. That's all it is. Bang, bang, bang, bang. And this is what's at work now. Because when humanity is operating on a fraction of its multidimensional infinity, it's a manipulator's party trick.

Because you're in reaction mode. Boom, boom, boom. And I kind of found it interesting that when you look at mind control and emotional manipulation, as above, so below, no matter what level you're looking at, you're looking at the same methods. Okay, take MKUltra. MKUltra led for some time by this guy, Ewan Cameron, this guy operating out in Montreal. What they were doing in MKUltra, and are still doing, is wiping, first of all, stage one, wiping clean the uniqueness and the personality of the person, the natural personality. Having done that, and got symbolically a clean sheet of paper, then they start to program into that mind the personality they want them to have, which is the personality that will do what they want them to do.

It's a reactive personality. This is what mind control people tend to do. They tend to react, to order. Then you look at what happens to people when they join the military is to wipe them clean of their personality, their natural unique thinking processes and processing of information, filtering of information. Then they want to turn them into what? Reactive beings. Yes sir! Beings. And then you look at what they're doing to the collective consciousness. They're seeking to bombard us with conditioning from cradle to grave that wipes five billion unique aspects of eternity Of its uniqueness and of its infinite power to control its own destiny So that we become second stage a two-legged herd That reacts that's the point reacts reacts reacts to stimuli.

So when something happens in like Oklahoma or Waco, within 24 hours we get the version of events we're supposed to believe and because we've been turned into reactive, not thinking beings, we go, something must be done, this can't go on, what are they going to do about it? Which offers their opportunity for the people who create the problem to offer the solution to the problem they've created and therefore move us on and get us to accept things we wouldn't normally accept if they were offered straight up front.

Those anti-terrorism bills going through Congress that took away fundamental freedoms in America would have been much more severely challenged had it not been for Oklahoma. But we were turned into reactive beings. And so wherever you look, you're looking at the same methods, which go back a long, long time. If something works, why not stick with it, I guess? And, but I feel this, to go into this other stuff, the Springmeyer stuff and Kathy O'Brien stuff. What's kind of happened to me over the last seven years since I started on this journey is that more and more, the longer the years pass, the synchronicity of my life and it's not because I think I'm bloody Jesus or a Messiah. We all have this capacity to do this. There are no special beings on earth, just some people that realize who they are and some people who've forgotten who they are.

They're the only difference. We all have the same potential to be and do anything. We are fantastic, fantastic beings. We have been persuaded we are ordinary men and women in the universe or ordinary men and women in the street. And so we create that reality, but we are fantastic beings who are operating on a fraction of who we are. But over the last seven years, it's almost as if not only does information come to me, it comes to me in the right order which makes it very much easier to understand it and put it together.

It's like you're putting a jigsaw puzzle together and they're handing you the right pieces in order. It does help. And over the last nine months or so, more and more, the synchronicity of information coming my way and people that I'm meeting are unfolding an astonishing story to me, which is, I guess, a few more steps up the pyramid to understanding the scale of imbalance and the scale of malevolence to which we have conceded control of our lives and control of the planet. And for me, it is this subject which is going to blast this in the public arena. Because almost, clearly not everyone, staggering as it may seem, but almost everyone is touched by children, what we do to children.

You stand up and reveal that key politicians in different parties or members of the same organisations work into the same agenda. And some people with a mind of their own will listen and see the significance and the importance of it. Most people will say, Is Wheel of Fortune on? What time is Wheel of Fortune on? What about the Price is Right? Is that on now? What time is it on, dear? and make public in a way that cannot be ignored, and that's coming. By the end of 98 that's coming. The President of the United States are abusing and murdering mind-controlled children. That thousands and thousands of mind-controlled children are being kept in captivity for these... I almost can't get the word people out.

For these people to do these things, mind control projects, satanic rituals, all this stuff. You reveal that, and the whole world will not only be shocked and go into a collective numbness, because I did when I first heard it, but they'll start to see that what they thought was happening in the world and what is happening in the world is fundamentally different. And this will do two things. First of all, it will focus people's minds on what an illusion they've been living. And secondly, it will immediately bridge the chasm between what is happening and what appears to be happening. That chasm is the greatest defense mechanism this manipulation has. The difference between what is happening and what appears to be happening in conditioned human mind is so vast, so enormous, that when truth comes out from the point of view of conditioned reality, it seems so far-fetched that people walk away.

Once you reveal and prove, and that's coming, the Presidents of the United States have been doing that to children. There is nothing left on planet Earth that is more off the flipping wall and more incredible. Compared with that, the key members of the same secret societies and the positions of power in the world is kind of small beer. And last August, when in a very small country, Belgium, it was revealed that a child pedophile abuse and murdering was being operated by politicians and by policemen who were arrested. 300,000 people were on the streets of Belgium in protest of that. 300,000. Because it touches us, almost all of us, very, very deeply when we hear this stuff going on. And so, for me, it is this subject that is going to blast the hole in the dam and through that hole all the other stuff is going to flood. And people are going to be asking then, well my goodness if this is going on, what the hell else is going on in the world? Nothing's fantastic anymore once that is revealed. And it's so important to get this out because if we if we don't get this stuff big time in the public arena where it can't be ignored and we start to have this public debate about this rather than being on the fringes trying to get stuff over the wall then the agenda that has been unfolding for thousands of years is going to get closer and closer to its goal.

My feeling is this however the consciousness that's been manipulating this planet is in eternal terms very very limited. It has an intellectual advancement beyond what we would call the norm on earth. It's very intellectually sharp, because this is an intellectual genius, the way the structure's been set up to play people off against each other. So that five billion people go to war with each other, trying to impose their belief systems on each other, when all the belief systems, or nearly all of them, are actually being created by the same people and played off against each other. It is intellectual genius, but it's a spiritual desert. And without the spiritual, you cannot vibrationally, in my view, get far out from this dense physical world. Now there is a consciousness coming in, which is there to be grounded in this world, which is infinity itself, if we want to make it so. And compared with that, this intellectual spirituality, for want of a term, which has been controlling the world for so long via the human race, has not got a prayer of surviving in that control if enough people open their hearts and follow their hearts, irrespective of what their heads might be screaming, and do what is necessary at this time to bring this change about.

In my view, and we've knocked some questions about when I've just done this, it's just my view, the way I intuitively feel it. For me, what we call soul is so far out of this dense physical world vibrationally, there's no way that these guys, in the most sophisticated three-dimensional mind-control projects, can touch it. What I feel happens is that soul, pure love, that's what we are, that's what all of us are, that's what George Bush is. Just lost contact with it. You're getting closer. Good. I think that pure love projects into three-dimensional embodiment aspects of itself for this fantastic opportunity in dense physical reality for learning and evolution through the experiences that it offers.

What I think mind control is, in all its forms, collective and individual, is not the possession of soul, because it's not in the vibrational range these guys operate in. It's the de-linking, or the massively de-linking anyway, of projected consciousness in three-dimensional embodiment from who it is, soul. It's like cutting off mission control. And for me, if pure love is what we are, and the heart chakra is that point, that vortex from which we express pure love, then if the heart chakra closes down, projected consciousness in three-dimensional embodiment vibrationally starts to delink from soul because it's delinking from the energy field of pure love. And what I feel has all this mind manipulation and all its collective and individual forms is closing down heart chakras and therefore delinking us from what we are so that we operate on a fraction of what we are, like boats without rudders. And I think also that these bloodline families at the peak of the United States, that what they go through in childhood and what they go through at the highest expression of the secret society networks in the initiations are rituals that close down their heart chakra while at the same time their intellect is stimulated from a very very early age and by the time the baton is passed on to the next generation, you are handing that baton on to a highly, highly imbalanced human being. Someone who is intellectually advanced but does not have the balance of spirit to balance out the behaviour of the mind, the head. And so, not only is opening the heart chakra and loving each other, some kind of trite spiritual cliche. It's actually the only way out of here.

And people talk about love and it's perceived as weak. Ooh, he's into loving, he's a bloke. Ooh. Love is the ultimate power, because love in its pure sense, in its real sense, is without all the emotions that take our power away. Fear, guilt, resentment. Love just is. It doesn't lie down and say, George Bush, I love you, walk all over me, do what you like. Love stands up for what it believes is right and will not step back under any scale of challenge. But it doesn't look George Bush in the eye while it's exposing his horrors and say, I hate you, George Bush. It says, I love you, George Bush, because you're part of me and I'm part of you. You're just on a different point of the journey. That's all you are. We're going to love this world into paradise, because you don't hate anything into paradise.

This world has been unloved into the state it's in. And we're going to love it out. But not with weakness. With love in its ultimate strength. And that's the energy. If we're prepared to ground it and follow it, because love challenges us. Love urges us to go into areas that the head goes, Oh my God! But that's the energy that's going to take us where we need to be, to do what we need to do, and to give us the power and the strength not to concede ourselves to any scale of challenge or any scale of intimidation.

Well, one of the early books from Commander or actually from the issue. One of the earliest books in the series published here called Satan's drummers laid out a lot of that information six, eight years ago and of course you and others have been pumping out the information about the link between child ritual abuse and leaders of Western Governments do you have any specifics on how this can be made more real to people maybe fictionalized forms? Like Robin Cook's coma or something like that makes makes it come alive for people I don't read fiction. I never have. I've never really been interested in reading fiction. I guess overwhelmingly because I've always found fact far more fantastic than any scale of fiction. In my view anyway, it's time to stand up and go head on to this and just speak our truth.

I have one criteria for whether I say something or write something, do I believe it to be true? The consequences of writing it never enter my head, because that is conceding my... what I think is right to fear of consequences. And so for me it's time to take on, up front, with facts, the people who are doing it. If George Bush is a paedophile, who's abusing mind-controlled children, then let's say it. And I say to George Bush now, sue me George, make me day, make my day, let's get this out in a public court. Come on. We don't need fiction, I don't think, to tell a story that is stunningly, stunningly factual and true. We just need to tell what's happening and name the people who are doing it. Not least for their evolution, because George ain't going to get out of the rut he's in, and these other people, the Kissingers and the Rockefellers, until they have to face the consequences of their actions. That's what we all do.

What is the evolutionary process? It's dead simple. Experience, learn from the consequences of decisions making in that experience, evolve. It's the same for George Bush, it is for me or anyone else. And this is the time of the unveiling and the revealing. It's the time that the cloud in the veil is lifting. For me it's no accident that at the same time. After thousands of years, the veil is lifting big time, big time now on this whole manipulation. We are in a healing crisis of the human mind, the human emotions, the human consciousness and planet Earth, in the sense that when any healing crisis is reached in the physical body, the cause of the dis-ease comes to the surface.

Sometimes it's a fever, sometimes you have a close encounter with a piece of porcelain. Whatever it is, the cause of the dis-ease is removed and comes to the surface where it has to be dealt with and that's what's happening now for me. I feel it's the same vibrational change that's the spiritual alarm clock for increasing numbers of people. That is the same energy that's starting to bring this stuff to the surface. And it's a time to speak truth. Or speak your truth. Someone else's your truth and my truth is that these people get into power on a massive ratio of Satanists and pedophiles to positions of power because once Satanists and pedophiles have got into the positions where they are controlling the appointment of positions of power, they then just put people of the same mindset into those positions of power, which is why the ratio of pedophiles and child abusers in the positions of power in the world is vastly higher than in the general population, although I don't think we should underestimate how prevalent it is in the general population also.

So I'm for naming the names and going straight up front with it. And if people feel it's their truth to do it by fiction, fantastic, but it's certainly not mine. Well, we've had the same... the same questions asked of us. Why would we write so just almost frenetically? Not the least of which would be my own typist who would ask this, you know, why would we write and we're at 200 volumes in less than seven years, and there isn't a one of these books that's less than 200 pages. There are thousands of hours of this. You're going to have to live based upon the truth.

And as Phil would ask you, what is truth? Truth is dealing with responsibility of individual and universal oneness. And then comes the next one. What do you mean you are considering, sir, making agreements, even financial contractual agreements with a George Bush, if he is so bad. Why not? Can you think of anyone else's money you would rather use? Money is not bad or good intended, and he has a lot of problems that I don't have. And David is right. I don't have to concern myself with all of those negative feelings that you might have to confront, but you'll learn, you'll learn that the minute you just put them aside and say, oh, okay, bring them on, because there's something about the media and the ones who will lie about you.

And we could get into fishny cuffs up here, he thinks he's Jesus Christ, well, she got written up in Associated Press as calling herself Jesus Christ. And certainly Applewhite called himself Jesus Christ. My good gracious, there's just got to be a lot of them running around somewhere. Will the red ones stand up? Well, let's talk about these two. See? There's one in every crowd that'll take responsibility. Possibly every one of you should have been on your feet. If you're teaching or saying the right thing, you're a messenger of truth.

A messenger of life truth is nothing more than bearing dharma. It's not a name, any more than Christ is a name. If your name is Mr. Christ, then I guess that's a name. And I repeat, if you walk up to me and say, I am Jesus Christ, in fact I may have to call him Jesus now. And you introduce yourself to me, I'm going to use the name you give me. If you don't know what your name is, who does? was also a term, but this was the name given by Saul of Tarsus. Now all of you think maybe Saul had this miraculous revelation, met the light, went blind for a while, and then went about spreading the word of truth of Christ.

Forget it. He went right on his way of bigotry, putting women down. I mean, I wondered if the women's movement really, really understood what Paul wrote in that Bible. There would not be one woman left tolerating the Christian Bible. Does that make him bad? It makes him nothing, bad or good. He just was. But look what has happened with the beautiful word that became the name of what you can look back two thousand years ago and say was a Christed being. This one, Esau, Emmanuel, The Masonic order is waiting for the keystone to the pyramid of the illuminated ones. That is Jesus. If there are any Masons present, you will know exactly what I'm talking about. And so you have all of the evangelists coming on, and it's all in the name of Jesus. Doesn't anybody see what you're talking about?

Oh, he shed his blood. Oh, he took our sins. Say what? Did you sin? And now he's going to take yours away from you, so that you don't have to have any more responsibility. You wait around, you're going to get raptured. Well, I suggest you not hold your breath. Who is going to rapture you? You've already turned this Jesus chap into a human being, a physical entity.

You can no longer except for a few brief moments on Easter Sunday relate to the fact that this is an energy form you're talking about after the physical is past and gone beyond. So in the name of Jesus who shed his blood and took my sins, all I have to do is just believe that story is true. It's come a long way, baby. It used to be, well, you know, in the name of Jesus, He will help me. No. Now, it is all you have to do is proclaim the name.

