920613-2a

5-19-24
Susan

MEETING TRANSCRIPT:  G. C. HATONN

SHAMBALLA GROUP
 
00:
Are we on the tape now? 
[Oberli] This is tape number two, June 13, 1992. Go ahead, Commander. Well, I don't spend my time keeping up with tad-ins or butting into people's business or even keeping business operations on scanners.  What George just said at the break, since these kinds of meetings are for this purpose, and whenever you ones feel in need of greater spiritual lessons, we'll do that too, but I have a tendency to keep you like five hours at a time without a break so be careful what you ask for, you get it. We need that too, but especially as there comes a time of separation, and you ones, as Sananda said, learn to fly. It's hard to, you know you can stand on the edge of that nest and flap your wings until you fall off and then as a little bird, you know instead of gliding off, you just bat your little wings to your little body and hope you don't hit too hard. As with Ed, you know, he waits until he's 78 to finally say, God, do it your way. So, that's a good example. It isn't that God wants to do it His way. He wants to do it your way. You don't believe you can do it. And that's what's wrong. Because when you step out there and put your hand in the hand of the man, you're going to do it. But you've got to trust that hand. And you can't do it. There is a Jewish joke and I'm not noted for telling great jokes, especially on nationwide tapes. They're going to go out there. But this started out as an Italian joke, then a Polack joke, and always the first place I heard it was a Jewish joke where the father puts his little two-year-old son up on the shelf and he says, jump off, Daddy will catch you. And the little boy wouldn't jump. Come on, Junior, jump off, Daddy will catch you. And he wouldn't jump. So this goes on, you know, ten or fifteen times. Finally the little boy jumps, and he goes splat on the floor. And he said, don't ever trust anybody. Well, that's where you are. You've jumped too many times and you've splatted on the floor. And as you've looked for your truth, it's been worse because you haven't known where to look. You've gone to all of the places where it seemed reasonable, only to have to look again. And then when you find it, you can't believe you've actually found it, so you have to spend at least five years picking it apart to see what's wrong with it. And sure enough, they expect something of you. What do you mean, give first? I have given first, until I’ve anything to give. So it's certainly time to get. Well, there are other methods of giving. You just perceive some kind of worldly goods is what is expected. No. Worldly goods are absolutely of no value to God. That is dealing with the spiritual aspect of self. The worldly goods is something created by that spiritual creativity. And you've got to learn the difference. And if you learn it in time, you don't have to live in the street. You certainly don't have to make it to the gutter. But most people don't do it that way. You think you're going to buy your way in. You think you're going to show them before they can show you. In other words, get them before they can get you. And God doesn't work that way. He's very patient and He'll let you go all the way right into the gutter. But He'll be standing there with His hand out to lift you out whenever you make up your mind. But He knows what you're thinking, so lying doesn't help it just compounds your problem. Trying to act in secret doesn’t help. Ones are always, always making every effort to fool me. I cannot imagine why anybody would bother. I'm a nice guy. Tell me the truth and I will carry you from here to Armageddon and back and over it. But everybody wants to play games with me. It's called testing. Well, for every bit of testing that you must do for me, you're going to have to walk that tightrope, that high wire, and maybe you better be asking Leon how to do it because it requires infinite balance. It requires putting aside fear and tenseness. And it's a good lesson for all ones to learn. I don't play games. And I have ones petitioning me from their very soul. What do I do? I'm caught up. You see the gift that was given by Sandy Inns in this room cannot be measured. That has gone out to the four corners of this nation. And these ones are surprised. But it comes back, and we have one letter here that I would like Oberli to read, or someone. He doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. I don't know any way I'm going to ask him not to give names, but unfortunately all of you are going to recognize this group. It's the Shambhala group with Dr. M. Doreal, and I think every one of you ought to hear the flip side of that story. These ones have been in pain for three years they've been writing to me. And finally it is just when Sandy Inn spoke of being in the Mormon church and what happened to them and I also want to share, in one of these envelopes, I want to share with everybody in this group who will take time to read all of this information, all these letters from every Inn's child wrote to me and drew us pictures. And when you have a little child who has sent hearts and stars and his own little heart and he tells you that in his town he's persecuted. He's never known love, only persecution. And you ones opened your arms and hearts to these people and they’re coming home. And these children, every one of them, Ken must see this. Just to be able to share these older ones with Damien and Brandon. And now I think you understand why I can't let you go. You need each other. You can't have a group here because you may not ever be called a cult. And if you ever have a group here, let it be the New Catholic Church with a little c. Some kind of universal brotherhood with God and stop all this other nonsense. It only requires love. When you have love and the goal, the way will be presented. Go ahead Oberli please.
[Oberli] This letter comes from Sedalia, Colorado. Dear Dharma, Commander Hatonn, I have been sitting here trying to figure out how to start this letter to you. I imagine the best way would be, Help, please help. My husband, father, and myself were listening to the last tapes we have received of 6-1-92. When the lady with the eight, now seven, children spoke, my heart filled with love and appreciation for such clear-sightedness. Also she has let us know that there are others indeed struggling as we are, and we are not alone. Our heart felt thanks to her, the team, and especially you, Commander Hatonn, for throwing us a lifeline through the Phoenix Liberator, the wonderful tapes and informative books and videos by George and Desiree Green. 
10:02
[Oberli] How to put this so it does not become such a long drawn-out thing to absorb any more of your valuable time than necessary and yet give you the needed information to give us the much-needed guidance is the question. This group of which I am speaking is really a little group team within the group. The group is the Brotherhood of the White Temple. The lessons are by Dr. Doreal, who passed, I believe, in 1968. Dr. Doreal states in one of his lessons that he was Hermes in one of his lifetimes. This is a metaphysical temple located in Shambhala in the foothills by Sedalia and Castle Rock, Colorado. The reason we are a little group team within the group of the Brotherhood of the White Temple is because we just cannot seem to fit. Let me explain further. I received the videotapes by William Cooper and George and Desiree Green. We knew that there was truth in these tapes. So being the eager beavers that we were, we decided all the group should be aware of this to protect themselves and their families. We copied at least 100 to 200 tapes between us and gave them to the group. Also we mailed out as many as we could to everyone we knew. Needless to say, the Brotherhood group said that we were causing people distress and that a man went to bed for a week after watching those tapes. Now…
I'll tell you, early on it was really bad. 
[Oberli] Being honest, what really topped it was when I, in my over-exuberance, decided to put a circle of light for your ship to land by. If there is such a thing, holy blank broke loose. We were de-robed and de-everything else. Also I received by reading, dreaming, or from my guide teacher that I was really being stupid to draw such attention to myself. I quickly removed the lights. This was before reading or hearing the tapes on how big your craft is. I am not sure... 
That's all right, we're laughing with, not at. 
[Oberli] I am not sure dumb is the best word for how I felt, but it is close enough. Before reading the Liberator and listening to the tapes, I was beginning to believe that maybe I really was crazy, and all these experiences all of my life really were due to my being a total ding-a-ling. Once the Brotherhood helped us to depart from their meetings and so on, this small little group team began to pull together and really talk. It had been silently known that the Brotherhood group really did not like us because discussing these things together, even though Dr. Doreal's teachings say read everything, check into all things, but use discernment and reasoning. There was another Brotherhood group which broke away from this one that we were warned away from. This group here talks about you having to do with elementals. The other group, which is called the Metaphysical Research Society in Denver, believe you to be of the snake race. It is unreasonable. This brotherhood group here gave me the feeling that they were better than outsiders, people who do not belong to their group. Then they actually told us this, and I knew I was in trouble with the group because in my heart I felt we were probably here needing more help than others, not because we were any better. That is unreasonable. We really are more alike than we may like to think. Also, never in my life have I ever felt anyone was an outsider when it comes to God. My problem is that I had felt guided here to do whatever it is to be of service. We learned that the blind cannot lead the blind, and that we needed to work on conquering self first, so that we could be of service to others through God's plan.
We have slipped and slid all over the place, working to learn to listen to God. There are probably a few claw marks where we had to drag ourselves up from down the road to go do the right things. We are still working on things we need much improvement on. Talking between ourselves, we, the little out-group team, found that we all felt much the same way and had many of the same types of experiences. We also moved here to Shambhala around the same time. We had all, in one way or another, come here feeling that we were here to help build a self-supporting group as much as possible. We also knew we were here to work, to learn, to improve ourselves so that we really could help in God's plan. We seem to all have had the experience that our whole foundation had been pulled out from under us more than once. It seemed so lonely and painful, oddly enough, to our surprise, we survived. It was like being blind and our guide said, Put your hand in God's hand, He will guide you through. There were sayings said to us like, Shut your eyes and see, really see. As long as we kept our eyes shut and our hand in God's hand, all went well. Maybe not exactly the way we liked, but it worked better than it ever had before, then the ego would feel, I can do that. The minute we removed our hand and opened our eyes in the material world, all hell broke loose. All hell broke loose because we found that we could not react in the same old way anymore. It just did not work. Once again we found ourselves in this mess saying, I do not belong here like this. I relate it to, I walk through this door. The door closes and disappears. Now I am standing in the dark side of this swamp. If I look hard I can see a light way over on the other side of this swamp. To get there I have to go through this mucky, nasty swamp with reeds that cut you and all kinds of unpleasant things crawling in and over the reeds and mucky swamp water. Then I realize I have done it again. I know that I have to go through that swamp to get to the light. There is no thought or question of staying there. I have to get to that light, come hell or high water. Finally I make it up to the light and get out of the swamp. Then I say to myself, I won't do that again. Usually when I was younger I said, and I don't do it again until next time. Thank God those times are now very few and far between, but I have a feeling telling me that these times need to be closer to none. Back to the group. We had built underground shelters, stored food seeds, worked in the gardens, stored water, and so on. Now, of course, we are out of all that. The shelters belong to them. Now, do not get me wrong, I really do love these people. They need those shelters. But even if they would accept us in, I would not accept their leadership with this double standard. There was no... 
Do you hear what that said? Even if they would let us in? And do you have questions about God in that group? 
[Oberli] There was talk about shooting people trying to get into the shelter. Not me. I have done enough things already to pay for without adding to that. This brotherhood group said that they were a dictatorship when they de-robed us. I told them that they may have the material power right now to stop our lessons, but they did not have the moral nor the spiritual right to do so. This happened about four years ago. They have reinstated our lessons after some of the truth on the videotapes of Mr. Cooper and the Greens have come out on television. Guess what? Now we have your cassette tapes, and of course I have that desire to let them know this truth. But I am not so anxious to lead with the chin. But my heart aches for their children and the people, stubborn as they are. Maybe I am crazy, how can I not tell them? Then again, most important, I cannot go against their free will. Help! Our little group team has stored more food, water, candles, stoves, warm clothes, and so on, in each of our houses. Can we do any more here? Are we just spinning our wheels? Where in God's world do we belong? I feel as if someone has reached inside of me and turned me inside out. Do we move or not move? To what or where? We have two beautiful white gelding Arabian horses, my boys, I call them. I was giving the children free riding lessons every summer because we felt that may be our only form of transportation besides walking. Of course that was stopped. Also I have been having dreams of opening to the inner earth by our home. I am not sure about pursuing that either. As you see, I am just not sure of these material things. I do know that I do love God and that we are here to be of some kind of service to God's plan, but we need some help in understanding and guidance. 
20:19
I need to explain a little further. We decided to move here when this guide teacher told me that there was ten acres here for us. The Brotherhood group told us, there is no land available here, and you are mistaken. My guide is never mistaken. I am, yes, but he is not. Sure enough, the ten acres presented themselves, and we built our house. They made bets that we would not be able to move in, but we did. We worked in the gardens, studied our lessons, went to class, and because doctors of metaphysics and became doctors of metaphysics, then ministers, then boom, we ran smack into truth, the same truth we had been studying. You, Commander Hatonn, speak the very truth we have been studying all these years. You are truth in action. We are grateful to find you, to find that you are here to help us. The need is great. My guide teacher has really chewed on me at times, but in return I have given him a terrible time also. Being de-robed was the best thing that happened to us. We all agreed. It felt terrible, but there is so much truth that flowed to us after that happened, and we are grateful. I was told by my guide teacher when I was very young that to never let anything anyone says or does let it stop you from helping your fellow man. He said that it would not be easy, and I may even get slapped for helping, also, there may be no thanks given except from God. But we are on the Brotherhood's territory. They are fearful and superstitious. I still help others, but my hands seem tied when it comes to them. Our little group team has been talking of starting our own meetings. If we hold meetings, I am not sure how much jeopardy we are placing ourselves in. Some of our team have children. These children's lives are precious to us. The parents have been schooling them at home. Our team feels that we need to unify. Are there any suggestions? I have a tendency not only to stick my foot in my mouth, but my whole leg along with it. I have had the feeling to pull up short on this decision-making and get some ideas, structure and guidance from you. You can see the overall picture. Our view is so limited. I feel as a group we are heading toward becoming willing to go to any length to help in God's plan. In light and love, one of the little group team members. 
I don't think any of you in this room can feel the joy that I feel at this moment. Not from that letter, but from you there's not a one in this room that doesn't see the truth of it. Now is this precious little group different? No. There are little groups like this scattered all over your world being completely and totally controlled and I'm sorry by evil. Were Doreal’s teachings wrong? No. This is what man does. I'm not even going to discuss Doreal’s teachings. Some of them were incorrect, but the basis was just and correct, the concept. Doreal is not there closing these ones out of their property. They are not sharing with one Doreal in that place. They are in a viper’s pit. I can't any more than anyone in their group tell them to get out of there because that must be one's own decision. But if you think you're going to go into the viper's pit and save those children, you will not. The way you save the children is to get truth to this world, and you can't do it by being the biggest tree even on the fringe of the forest, and they won't let you in the forest. There comes a time when you have to join together, go within and make decisions, and then you have to act. Do you sacrifice your own children for those that you reach out to? You see, I see this happening around in the world today, in very close proximity to my own people. I'm going to go save these ones, because I can't stand it, for my own goal, literally, to hell. I think, you know, if one's asked my opinion, which they did, they petitioned, this is the final letter I've gotten from them before. The story of the building of those underground dwellings for security, and the storage of food, and the contributions, and the fees, not contributions, charged. And when they get defrocked or whatever, you know, we're gonna rip off your robe. What in the world are you talking about? God sees you naked. There isn't anybody any better than anyone else, including me. We're all wondrous beings. My outspoken immediate response is gather up your group and come home. Get out of there. You will never be able to be productive while you are perceived in shackles by this group of people. Don't confuse it. It is nothing but people. And you've got enough of these problems in the world with the government. You don't need a bunch of people destroying the rest of your life. You can't make a contribution there. It will not be allowed. They don't want your truth. And yet there’s always fear. There’s always fear. For one thing, this is just what we were talking about a little bit before. I've tried this, and I've tried that, and I've made another blunder. We've had ones that came here from another place in Colorado, and it seemed perfectly all right somehow to be trodden upon while this man had two women on the side that he would go visit while she tended the garden and about lost her mind and then in the end she left. She left because she felt so insecure about herself that she couldn't hold on long enough to receive. God wants to give it to you, but you have to put your hand out there, and you have to take it. And He doesn't ask you to do anything blindly. So sometimes you have to look at it and say, could it be worse? What am I doing here? Could it be worse? Well the nice thing is you don't have to just go off the deep end. You can measure everything you're told against the truth of the Commandments of the Laws of God for your planet and your species and your civilization of man. And then you can balance that against the Laws of Creation which never change and when you see that one thing one thing like de-robing you, in other words, I'm going to strip off your stripes. I'm going to excommunicate you from the group, or in this instance, worse. I'm going to take off your symbols. And look at me, I am the big shot capable of doing it.
30:19
And yet, emotionally you become entangled. We have a very, very close friend to some that are here, who really won't yet sit in a meeting with Hatonn, reads all the material, he’s not ready to meet Hatonn. When he’s been ready to meet Hatonn for a long time. He was very big and very powerful in his church. And he was very giving. He believed. He believed! And after they had used what he had to offer, they kicked him out. It almost destroyed him. He almost committed suicide. And until he came to work here, on his little visits down here, he's not here in this town. And he began to open up to the possibilities. He didn't want to hear this. And yet he had to hear it. I'm always finding it interesting. What is there that Hatonn might be saying? Is it because I represent an extraterrestrial? Who do you think the Master Teacher is? You see, maybe God is the only one who's not. Think about it. And I can guarantee you, you won't let Him in when He tries to land. So He's got to already be here, doesn't He? And He's within, bursting to get out. This is why the unrest can't settle down. And yet, always you're confronted with, what do I do with two horses and a piece of land that they said I couldn't have anyway? And yet how much pleasure, how much even physical pleasure can these ones be reaping? And for what? There doesn't seem to be, to me, anything worse to go to. You're already in worse. Because when you're spiritually restrained and you give in to that, the conscience can't bear it. You can give in for a long time for the greed or the physical acquisition of something, but when you are up against it and you choose the physical environment over God and spiritual freedom, you've erred. And it would be nice, wouldn't it, to be able just to sit here and say, hey, boy, I'm telling you the gold is pouring in from the Philippines. It's just falling all over us. Come on out help us pick it up. That'll be your first job. We'll pay you to help pick it up. No, we won't pay you to help pick it up, but I might give you a hint where to find it, because I know. And you don't have to go very far. But that last 50 yards is a real doozy, isn't it? That last shale crossing straight up is really, really hard, isn't it? These are the crossroads. It's hard to make those decisions. It's hard to say, I'm going to go. Because common sense tells you if you are going with nothing to offer and you become a burden to another, that can't work unless that other has the facilities to attend that. So always these things must be considered. But if you are already self-sufficient in a given location, what are you thinking of? If you can do it there under those circumstances, you can do it anywhere and it's got to be better. And you don't go ask the group that's just thrown you out for permission. You take responsibility, and you start by taking responsibility for those children in your care. And do not make them abide under this kind of persecution. It makes them feel unworthy, because you can squelch a person physically, but when you hurt them spiritually, you're going to pay. And I would not want that on my conscience. So if you mean what you say, anyone, I'm talking to everyone, look around you, take your responsibility. Stand before your responsibility. And then you have to take action. You see, for a long time here, we've discussed some of the problems of moving. We considered all moving. That's absolutely not going to happen here, not at this time. This is the place where these ones need to be. On the other hand, all ones try to read themselves into every scenario, and that is totally unacceptable. But all ones who are around here, for instance, deserve and have the right to make a choice. You see, Sandy's not here. She's gone back to attend other things. And I'm sorry that I didn't have a chance to talk with her before she made this journey. But Sandy has never been close to these two people, particularly. She came with George and Desiree, and she was never quite that comfortable with Dharma and Oberli, and these ones are never really allowed out. Dharma leads a very isolated life. For a while, when they were literally shooting at her, I kept her totally isolated. There was a time when the house was, you know, Hotel Hilton. If you had a meeting like this, you had dinner. And then we tried potlucks, and then they bombed the house and literally did quite a lot of damage to the crystal behind the dwelling. It became unsafe for anyone even to stay overnight in the house. It became dangerous for them and for the guest. So gradually, isolation has been the journey. It's been as much isolation for George and Desiree as for these two, only in a different way. They are impacted by people constantly having to be on the road, and yet they're just as isolated. I can feel it every time Desiree talks to me. You each need a friend, every now and then, of your own gender, just to sit and cry with. And it seems so great to everyone. Oh, well, yes, but you get to go up and you get to buy your clothes at Neiman Marcus and go up on the stage. Do you want someone who looks like a slob up there representing you? Desiree is beautiful. And when she gets up to speak, she allows God to take it. And it's not easy to get out there with a Cartier watch, and everybody's going to pick at you and call you evil, and, oh yeah, I'm sure. Well, what does this world want? How many of you want to follow someone groveling to stay in the gutter? And this is what your churches did to you. Somehow you have to be in poverty and I want to know why you ever got such an idea. God is total abundance. 
40:00
It’s harder if you have it, because it's easier to fall prey to having to have. And it gets to be a lonely life when you're in the middle of controversy, and you get to the point where you don't want to hear about it. Not one more breath. Not one more, not one more sentence. Don't anybody say anything to me about this world. Don't say anything to me about God. Dharma had to go through this one day. She walked in the bedroom and she had had enough. And the one more sentence got said. And she wheeled around and she said, God, get out of my life, I cannot stand you here one more minute. And at that moment, a blast hit that house that shook it almost off its foundation. Because the minute you deny God, He removes the shield. And you'll see what was said, was said from the heart. She meant it. Get out of my life. And that shield opened and wham. And I will tell you the humorous part of it. Oh God, I didn't mean it, you know. Let's clear this up now. Yeah, you know I didn't mean it. No, I know she meant it and those are the best lessons. Does this mean that you're going to get turned on to God and get turned off to life? No way. It's going to be a little bit harder. It's going to be a little bit harder not to say something nasty about somebody because it means more to you now the consequences of such such a thing to your own being. Are you going to quit gossiping? No. That is as human as as being alive. And you ones don't understand. Gossip is a hurtful thing, usually started on rumor, innuendo, and no basis. It's cruel. To sit together and try to discern a solution for a problem requires discussion. And very often you're going to be a bit catty while you're doing this. So it borders a little bit on gossip and a little bit on nastiness and shows you that you're very human and you better watch yourself. Because you're setting yourself up as judge.
[Oberli] Commander, may I have a minute to turn the tape? 
Yes. Exactly 60 seconds.
43:01  [Tape ends, repeats back to the beginning, ending at 88:15]