890105-2a
1-11-2024
Dita

MEETING TAPE: G.C.HATONN
POSTMORTEM CONTINUES ON LEGAL PROBLEMS

0.00
Oberli: Well the question that I asked was, what's in it for Horowitz or anybody else?
00:14
Well down to that. Now, Horowitz got himself held up. Had a gun put to his head. Turned out to be a toy gun. And he got very incensed about that and trotted about town and got a law enacted that no more lookalike toy guns. And over a period of time I would expect that almost every city in the country will have a law against look alike toy guns. Even if they don't, most factories won't make toy guns because they won't be able to sell them in most cities, and so they're not going to be accused of making good collector toy guns. So there's something in that for Horowitz. He got something done, he's had a lot of accolades for it, and it's been quite a personal achievement for him. And he is a big ego, egoist, but the facts are that the justice system no longer meets out justice, it meets out law. Now, if Mr. Horowitz could be, could understand that that's what's wrong and this case doesn't have anything to do with the Eckers or Santa Barbara Savings.
Those are just two actors that happened to cross the stage at a time when things came together so that you could get a snapshot of the system and see what it looked like. Tomorrow there will be different actors going across the same damn stage, getting the same treatment, because it is a monopoly of lawyers practicing law, not a justice system, not a system of justice any longer. When a judge cannot in his own damn court decide what's admissible as evidence, then there's something wrong with the system. And yet we've heard that judge say twice that he could not accept our evidence. He couldn't hear anything about our case until our paperwork was in order. 
03:15
Other speaker: Could you turn this thing around on Santa Barbara Savings by getting a lawyer who really knows the law and have him essentially build the case here on this fraud, there's another name for it, they had him go to them and threaten to sue them if they didn't settle with you... I was thinking of an outside settlement also.

Now you don't have to get it into all the papers, but you could still go after these people and tell them, if they don't settle with you, you're going to turn it loose and you're going to file in the court. Either that or you file first and then you agree to settle. Yeah. Oberli: You've got damn little leverage when you're looking at a default right in the eye. But that default isn't because of... And that's not the objective of this whole exercise anyway. That's the point I'm trying to make. It doesn't have anything to do with Eckers and Santa Barbara Savings. We just happen to be in the hot seat. Other speaker: You're caught. 
Oberli: And the objective, apparently, from upstairs, is to begin to get us to think about changing the system. Now, we have, as you've pointed out, John, we have two problems: one is changing the system and getting outrage, public outrage, going, to change the system, as David Horowitz was able to do. The second part of it is solve our own damn little problem here. And I think what Hatonn has suggested is that we use some of the outrage as leverage to get the attention of Santa Barbara. We can't get it through legal means then get it through public means. So rather than having the legal threat, if you will, I mean, tonight, do you think Mr. Horn is scared that we might do something? No.
Other speaker: Oh he's going to sleep well tonight and congratulate himself. But really he's done you an injustice. He's done everyone an injustice by a shrewd manipulation. I don't see why you couldn't scare the pants off of him if you had. Would this guy Steve be smart enough to look into this case and bring out the felony that he committed?
Hatonn:  No.
Other speakers: How many more people do they do this to? 
Hatonn: If there was enough money. I'm sorry brothers…
Other speaker: Always money, money, money. We've got principal here.
Hatonn: But without money, nobody has any principles. 
(laughter, unclear)…Which attorney is in there for principle..
Hatonn: And if you got a settlement today and they said alright put your money where your mouth is you can have that house for a hundred and seventy thousand today. You might as well let them put the default judgment up on your door. 
Other speakers: I would say use this deal to get them to horse trade. You don't spend a cent just to drop the lawsuit, the felony lawsuit against him. Ok, let me play devil's advocate for a minute. You were saying what's in it for Horowitz. So we go through this whole exercise of getting all the media, publishing all these letters, what is that going to really do, accomplish for us?
If say we get five letters published, what will that do for us? 
Oberli: Well, if it gets on 60 Minutes and places like that, it doesn't do much for us, but it corrects, it has a tendency to correct the system. The pendulum swings. Obviously the pendulum has now swung so far toward law that there's no justice and somebody's going to blow the whistle out here somewhere and it will begin to swing back. And I think that's what we're being asked to do, toot the horn. I don't mind doing that. I feel like we're all a one man band. We're not only tooting the horn, we're playing the drums. Well, it's ridiculous to have our little group trying to do that. That's what pisses me off about the whole thing.
Hatonn: Then don't do it!
Oberli: Why us? 
Hatonn: Don't do it.  
Other speakers: We don’t have our resources yet…
Hatonn: What is your alternative? What is your alternative.
Other speakers: Ok the alternative is to do nothing and just prepare to move. One thing is, don't you guys already have, don’t you already have a full schedule with your momentum on your other... You bet. So do you really want to concentrate on a different track? Well, that's what we're talking about. The frustration of having to do both? 
Hatonn: Quite frankly, friends, if you had the money to buy the house, I would say buy it. For whatever they want to charge you. You don't have it. That's what I'm trying to tell you. You can resent me, you can resent Esu, you can resent everyone. It's an earthly matter. Silver Ray told you once, the hierarchy is not involved in your financial business. We can help any way we can. We can help you get these proposals and give you ideas for them. We cannot hand you the money. We can work like you know what, within the next few weeks to try to get some money. And sitting in this room, talking about it, that we ought to, and… you have to do it. And all I'm saying is, can you buy time, can you find an attorney who will do it on contingency? Or do you want to just pack and get out and let it go? 
Other speakers: It seems like it(chatter, unclear) In a way we should…We still need money for another house. Yea.
Hatonn: Well, yes, you're right. I mean it literally. 
Other speaker: It's diminishing returns at a certain point. We have so many things going on that we should get somebody to spend so much time working on the attorney thing, so much time on the proposals, so much time on Jeffers, all these bases need to be covered, but if we spend all of our time trying to get an attorney, then that's time drained off from the proposals. If we spend time on the proposals, that's time drained off for immediate cash. So there has to be some kind of balance. 
Hatonn: You're not going to get immediate cash from proposals.
Other speakers: Well I know that. That’s…I know that.
Hatonn: Now I just got this rebuttal in the last two days: don’t tell me anymore proposals, Hatonn. We've got the $125 million one out there now. I don't have time. Oberli has no time to do more and neither do you Rick. Now, if you ones in this room want to tell me how we can get more written, we have two people writing and are willing to type, we don't have compatible computer. Maybe you chose the wrong bunch of energies. Well maybe I will retaliate and say maybe I chose the wrong bunch of crew!. And that gets us nowhere. I didn't choose badly and neither did you. And if the worst thing that ever happens to you is to get to utilize this house for a year and a half and have to move, that's pretty nice. There are a lot of people out on the streets this night with no home.
And they're no poorer basically financially than you ones. Let's talk our blessings before we get all tangled up about how put upon we are. We will take it one step at a time. Can we get that proposal done and out?
Other speakers: Yes. Very shortly. How short shortly? A week two at the most. Can I say something? Ten days. But that still doesn't give you immediate funds. But that's not immediate. I would like to suggest that we talk in terms of starting, putting together, pooling our energies to form some type of immediate business, which is a service-oriented business that will generate immediate cash. Short of or in addition to the John Jeffers thing and I realize that's an additional time restraint. Just before the holidays I have a question about, there was some mention in a message, I'll have to go back and look and see exactly what it said, but there was a mention of some funds from somewhere that was, from what I can recollect, it was more or less assured that there were some funds, I don't know if there was any amount mentioned or anything, that it would be before the end of the year. Was that a John Jeffers letter or something? No, no, it wasn't a letter, this was in one of our writings.
Hatonn: Well yes
Other speakers: Does anyone here recall that at all? I recall it, but I don't know what Clinton’s talking about. 
Hatonn: Yes, and just like the rest of your life. It got bogged down. Somebody didn't go into the bank to make their transaction. As a matter of fact, they went skiing, because they don't care about you. They don’t care about their own bank. Your world does not care anymore. I don't know how to put it nicely. And this is why we have to deal in probabilities. There was no earthly way other than a banker being gone that it wouldn’t have gotten finished. You can ask Mr. Jeffers. But it happened. And it happened because a banker went skiing on holiday.
Other speakers: Then is it fair for me to ask you the probability of securing immediate cash? I was gonna say..
Hatonn: It's fair for you to ask. I look at the scanners and it's it's it's just enough people. The probabilities have not changed. Very excellent.
Other speakers: Well that sounds encouraging.
Hatonn: Well it sounded encouraging before the end of the year, didn't it? 
Other speakers: Yes. It was encouraging last June, too. Well, time is a little different up there. The only reason why you even came back, and the point I wanted to talk to Mom and Daddy Joe about was, when I left there was talk of spending a lot of effort on getting more time and, (installed? unclear) stuff like that. And a… I don't know, but maybe that is the best thing, but if it was me, I would spend all my time getting this house emptied because if they give you three days and they don't buy your excuse or your reason for wanting more time and I could be wrong but when we just went to get our kids, Vicky, the babysitter is a woman that, well she moved down from San Bernardino but she has two close friends that went through this exact same thing in the last nine months. And when they gave her notice, she says they gave her three days and I said, well, you can get an extra couple of weeks maybe. She says, like for instance, if somebody was living with you, and she says, well, as a matter of fact, right on statement 10, it says all occupants must be out. The point I'm making is they had four kids, they were in the apartment, they got the notice, and they figured they could buy some more time. And when that three days was up, the sheriff went and got them, escorted them right out the door, wouldn't even let her put a robe on, wouldn't even let the man get dressed. And they took them outside, locked it up and later on the maintenance man out of the kindness of his heart broke the law and let one, not the family, but a neighbor go in there just to get them clothes and they never, they lost all of their belongings. And they said they didn't have a right to any of their belongings. And I don't know if that's true, but it's possible if you just wait and you use up all your time, they might just say, well, you keep your 11,000 and we'll just keep everything you own in that house. That's about a fair trade. Well, it might not be, but if it was me, I would say, let's get busy and get to work.
Hatonn: He's got a very good point.
Oberli: Yeah, it's a good one to bring up. 
Other speakers: Because I know she doesn't want to lose all her owls. I know you don't want to lose your office equipment. For sure we need those pots and pans. 
Well, that's the other side of it. I think we should... You only got three days. Maybe you can get, maybe we can get a week or maybe we can get two weeks. But if it was me, I would say let's get busy right now, starting tomorrow morning.
Because even if we started tomorrow morning, we wouldn't get this thing completely empty in three days. Either that or get legal counsel tomorrow and by tomorrow night make a decision on what to do the next day. I think Stephen Schaefer knows the eviction business pretty well. That part of it I think he understands. He hasn't claimed any super-duper knowledge about this side of the other… I just would hate to see anybody's fanny hanging out in the wind as a result of this guy that would advise. Well we will try to get some legal advice but I don't want anybody borrowing any panic. No panic, just preparedness. Not panic, let's just start moving. We've been through bankruptcy and the first thing they do is issue a stay. They freeze everybody and there's nobody in the second trustee business and I've been in that business myself. There's nobody in that business that hates bankruptcy worse than they do because it stays up. So we can file bankruptcy and it will stay for 40, roughly 40 days. So let us not borrow any panic.
Hatonn: Well let's make very sure.
Oberli: We will try to make sure. 
Other speakers: Can you file bankruptcy twice within a certain range? Hatonn: You can file it, they may not honor it. 
21:00
Oberli: It takes them 40 days to get it released. It’s federal court. Other speakers: Just from the filing on it. Sure. It ties it up….40 days. According to him, according to Steve Schaefer, there are three different kinds of bankruptcies. You know, 7, 11, and 13 I believe are the designations. And he says that he has people that file one, and it takes him 40 days to get it turned loose, and then they file a different one, and it takes him that long.
And they may have just gotten out of bankruptcy, but it takes that long to run it through the system to release it. You're talking about chapter 7 or 11 or 13 aren't you? The fact that you filed it ties it up. Yeah. The same day as you file it the court issues restrained order, yeah exactly… nobody could so you have well see that…can you do that on Saturday?... you got Friday tomorrow's Friday you don't do it tomorrow could you do it on Saturday or Sunday?
Oberli:  well there's still a two-week thing on the living person and that was on Rick's door.
Hatonn: As a matter of fact, call Rick, one of you please. Find out for sure. He came over here and he said: there is something I could file to stop it or delay it or something. And he chose I believe not to do it. 
Oberli: Which one of you is going to do that?
Other speaker: I’ll call
Oberli: See if he still got it. He may still have the form and we can look at it if it doesn't have it and somebody get ahold of a sheriff and find out what it is they put on the door.
Other speaker: We'll know by tomorrow morning anyways.
Oberli: Well we're going to try to get a hold of an attorney tomorrow. Hatonn: We'll have to do something tomorrow because of the three day ending on a weekend. 
Other speakers: I assume that three days includes weekends too, don't it? Yes, calendar days. I think we have to... I think Horn was down at the clerk's office setting things up so that this could get taken care of. So I think probably we'll get those nailed on the door tomorrow. 
Hatonn: O I am sure you will.
Other speaker: I say you get this bankruptcy declaration and you get a stay for 30 days or whatever it is, will that give enough time for you to get some money out of Jeffers or somebody else to go ahead with your next step either another place or trying to buy this one? Who the hell knows? Well, some of this money should break loose pretty soon. Well, that's why I was bringing up before about the money that was supposed to break loose before the end of the year. What's happened to it is going to quit playing…is it gone forever or ..like waiting for you to do…
Hatonn: well part of it was to be three million dollars from Otto 
(unclear chatter) so what about that… that fell weak...as a totally least after the first year the first year now…before Christmas…it is. Other speaker: Well Hatonn you've told us all along it's going to be John Jeffers and saves our fanny 

25:50
Hatonn: It's not very comforting this evening, is it?  I agree with Oberle. Let us not panic. Because panic causes ones not to think. And let me give you a few guidelines when you go and ask your guides for thought. Ask them for positive thought with what is. Thank them for presenting it to you. There is no point in hitting anybody with your surmise of how it is because I'll tell you right now Oberli was getting close, you're all wrong. We want to see you have it, we want to see it smooth out for you. We have great, great work to do.
We don't need these little perturbations. And I know that it is not little, but measured against the world it's little. And if the time is spent in prayer, groaning about what if or what did or what is gone will not help. Don't just require, I mean request, require your guides to give you input. Tell me father what to do to fix this situation! Yes, it delays you to have to go through these maneuvers, but it does not delay you as much as to get these two out of commission. At this point, they are still the resource. I wish it were not so. It is a heavy burden for them. It will effectively stop the project. And there's where the problem lies. You don't have much more time to go through this particular type of misery, but you're stuck with it today. And you find out from Steve what can be done and then you go to Linda and you tell her what to do and let her check the law. Don't just go on the assumption that it's all right. There is some sheriffs that have to be on duty on Sunday, and that's a very good point you get your things out or can they keep them. You have to remember there is no justice you are working with the KGB or the Secret Service, whatever the black ones were. You may as well assume it. The ones who came and gathered the jews were not individually bad human beings, they were given an order to do it. Make sure, Jean, is not correct, or you might very well be on Sunday with your things locked away from you forever. And then you are effectively stopped.
Let me let her up at least for a while. I've given her an extremely bad headache. 
Oberli: We've had plenty for today. 
31:02
Hatonn: I think that you will begin to get very creative. Salute. Other speakers: Salute. Thank you. Thank you.
Hatonn: I apologize for the experiences and yet I don't know why I apologize. I have been socked in the belly too. 
31:40 END OF MEETING