890105-1b
1-04-2024
Dita

MEETING TAPE: G.C.HATONN
POSTMORTEM OF DEFAULT TRIAL CONTINUES

00:00 Postmortem of default trial continues.
00:14 
Hatonn: An earth lawyer, I can research the laws, but I cannot put it into the minds.
Other speaker: Well, looking at it from our... The way I see it was to our advantage. We're thankful anyhow today if we're going to carry it forward. All these things looks like they add up to a plus for us if we carry and get a good lawyer to handle and go ahead with it. We're wasting a lot of time and effort doing that as far as time and effort from building the city too.
Other speaker: Right, and yet where is the choice… they both need to be done. On the one hand we can try this in the media, which we should do and will do, but so much energy goes into that, it's taken off from the proposals, and the proposals that we do are three months, four months, five months down the road in terms of cash flow.
In the meantime, the media financial pressures enter in, so decisions need to be made do we work to bring in a thousand, a month, two thousand to cover bills to keep the wolves at bay, and all of these decisions need to be made, and constantly in the midst of all this is conflict and frustration, and more and more time delays. And that's the frustration I feel. And it’s nota,…there's no easy out. That's just the way it is. It's still a pisser. 
Hatonn: Thank you. Germaine would have said that too, you know. (laughter) Oh, this is the part that hurts us. We do have to watch it come into your realization. Where were all those ones? Saul didn't get called. Jay Gritzner should have been there. And I'm not going to be the one to think of all of it. This is what we must do if we're going to do anything. And that is each one of you must think. And make your suggestions. It has to be handled on earth and the ideas have to come from you no matter how silly or how out of your pocket it seems to be.
Other speaker: We have got to have a good attorney who can research this and do it for us.
Hatonn: Well you had to face something else today. 
Other speaker: I thought we would not take it. 

Hatonn: Well, no, we're not even going to talk attorneys. There's one that will take it. 

Other speaker: Horne. (laughter) 

Hatonn: If you all gave him enough he probably would…

Other speaker: (unclear) Will take a case against him now doesn’t he! Wouldn’t that be something…(laughter)(unclear) 
Hatonn: You have to face the fact that the word was not spread properly. I didn't see any reporter there from the Tehachapi News. Other speaker: They wouldn't come. 
Hatonn: Isn't that interesting? The next question is, Hatonn, do we have to do this all alone, nine or ten people? No, because when you have money, they're going to fall out your ears. With outage of people, if that’s all the responsibility you want them to carry. Your next problem is going to be them still wanting the masses of money without the production. You have to put out the bait, if you will. Who is going to pick up the gauntlet? Who is going to carry it, the banner? Even Descary and Carol Williams will back off if they're not reminded. It just seems too mammoth and it is not personal enough. For this tape I'm going to tell you what is going through her head. She's aggravated at me. And I want her to know later that I understand. And I want to tell you all in this room that we most certainly understand. She is saying right now, who needs this? Who needs this? We have bought the right to $22 million dollars, that's enough to keep Oberli and myself and my family fed, clothed, and enough food to last for the next 50-100 years. To hell with it all! Let them build their own damn city. Nobody wants to go across that chasm! Why do you waste your time, Esu… You've gone farther than that now. You have the 22 million coming, plus the 33 million, plus the 18 million plus 125 million. Those things just threw Jeffers. It's not here this afternoon, it’s inconvenient. But I have to tell you what I hear coming up! I don't blame you for thinking it, you might as well say it: will we continually just get kicked in the teeth? Yes sir, as long as you have teeth. And the day that it is bigger than carrying the cross that God got for him, I feel sorry for you. 
Now I have compassion. And we're all going to sit and lick our wounds. And I'm going to remind you that you have lived very, very nicely, very well for a year and a half if you have to move out after tomorrow.
As long as we can find a place to store the goods. You can sit in the coach if you have to. It will be a damn sight better sitting in the coach than it would be starving to death, while this world, Earth makes the transition.
08:30
Let's bring balance back into it. Let's not thrust out at each other. And I know that it is not meant, and I don’t fling hurt at you. I am not allowed to tell you. I told you that from the beginning I can help you so much. And I tell you each in your minds. And you just haven’t learned yet to receive it all. 
And yet you know, I am not getting any rebellion, not really. I’m demanding discussion. And so you're going to discuss with whatever is on your tongue. And I like to hear it, because each time we can have a discussion makes it easier the next time. It isn't just changing a system. The system, brothers, can stop you. So you have to utilize whatever tools are created for you. And whether it’s a criminal justice system I guess we can call it the criminal injustice system
Other speaker: I guess the frustration I've been feeling is that I feel like we're digging the garden with bare hands instead of with spades and rakes. Physical, actual, real tools. 
Hatonn: I hear you. 
Other speaker: There's also gratification in that they communicate from scratch and having to put it into a box. It's not as easy to go to the store and buy a box. I think it's the same problem. Satisfaction. Making it through it. 
Hatonn: Well, ask sister how her 88 years have been. 
Other speaker: I know how they have been.
Other speakers: Look at how poor Oberle tried to take care of this legal work. We were never given a chance to find a real crackerjack attorney. We've always had the opposition that was first class here we are, here trying to struggle along with a bicycle instead of a racing car. 
Hatonn: We have no money. 
Other speakers: We better do something about it as soon as we can. Because we can fumble and fumble and fumble and just fall on our nose. Unless something goes. A part of me thinks that the Cavalry should just be a little better healed. Or better…I don’t know. You know what I’m trying to say. 
Other speaker: I worked five years on projects, but I've never had one that was so slow as this one.
Hatonn: And you worked for the government? 
Other speaker: That's right, I worked for the government, but I had cut all the lines of everything. Here we don't have much support. We have to do it all ourselves. 
Hatonn: That's right. 
12:30
And yet you have all the support in the universe. You just haven't understood it yet. And I can tell you and tell you and tell you, and you can hear it and hear it and hear it. And it's like experiencing it today in that courtroom. There will be the moment when you understand.
12:53
Other speaker: I have always felt the support and I continue to feel the support. Each day I realize more and more the scope of this job and how big it is and how little time there is to do it. And it's that realization that has me a little freaked out.  
Hatonn: And it will get worse. You see, you're next in line. Oberli still can turn it off. Dharma can half turn it off. You're next in line to open your eyes, Rick. Those are not pretty pictures that you see. First you have to see how it is. And in your heart you everyone know what it would be during that transition and this day in court will not mean a flipping thing out there. You see we've grown. We have really grown. This little one just says: Oh, I just don't want to pack and go through that mess. I don't blame her. I don't blame any of you. And it is good to have these sessions.
Let's wallow around in it. And then we will pull ourselves up and we will get on with it. First we have to feel sorry for ourselves. I don't mean that sarcastic like it came. We do and we do and we do and we do without. Well at the moment you're sitting in front of a nice warm fire. So you're alright for the moment. And it's each moment. And what is or what will be are two different things. So what do we do with what is? The what is, is that the attorney didn't show up, they did get a judgment which is laughable. For if you're out of this house, we've also urged you ones to learn enough about business that you're judgment proof, what are they going to do to you? If they do very much to you, you’ll really get them. You're going to anyway. You do see that you have to do something, don't you? Whether or not you're in this house. You can't afford just to let it go. And yet it's been a very nice place to stay. It served a great, great purpose. It's been a very gracious place. And we can all see it and assume it gone, and we can see what to do about it.
16:27
(Phone rings)
Oberli: Hi, Charles. We're in a session. You want to call me back? But I'll tell you what happened, our paperwork wasn't right so they took a default against us and the damages are $11,500 plus you know, basically, yeah, we've got several different ways of staying in, maybe as much as 3 or 4 months. We'll exhaust those first. In the meantime, we're okay. Alright, bye.
Oberli: That's number one son, Chuck. Well, how can we decide what to do when we don't have any idea what to do? You know as far as we're concerned, and if we were to believe Steve and everybody else, we have basically lost the case and there isn't any recourse. Now perhaps there is a recourse and perhaps it involves criminal or a lawsuit to recover damages or something like that. 
Hatonn: You start, I'm going to help you along a little bit and then you ones are going to start thinking. On Earth level, you say you don't know anything about it, then damn it, find out something about it. Go with Linda Carter. Go, all of you.
You sat in a courtroom. When you go to speak with her, take these ones with you. You've had enough. Let them present the case to her and ask her what we do. There's going to be plenty of money out there, but we need time now. And she probably will say, oh well I don't know about this or that or the other. I'm telling you to do what Steve told you to do, to stay in it as long as you can.
Oberli: Well we'll do that. That's fairly easy.
Hatonn: And then we keep working as fast as we can to get some money. I will tell you this, if you come up with a hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars, they will take your money. So can we get a hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars within six weeks? That is the question. And you Oberli start by reaming William Cudd. And then secondly you tell John Jeffers, you just lost your house today. We have got to have some of that money coming back what can we do to move it John?!
And then all of you go incensed about a system that has done this and you call every day if it takes it, to the television stations, to the news, write your letter to David Horowitz, let’s get some public opinion going. You forget something else, miss Carter is going to be embarrassed she did what she thought she could do and you've lost a case
Oberli: Her name is Clark.
Hatonn: Well I have superwoman on my mind (laughter) 
Other speakers: I don’t blame you…She does, Linda Carter is the one that played Phil. She does. Linda Carter was the...plastic suit (unclear chatter) Well so be it.. Whoever. Where? Soap Ops.
Other speaker: I have a question in reference, Commander, to the... which you had mentioned earlier about... that not enough people or media were contacted for today. I personally feel that every one of us here right now sitting here right now did everything we could do and contacted about every bit of media we could within two days.
22:00
Hatonn: Yes, you did, and I don't want you to take that. It just doesn't cut it to do it just once. 
Other speakers: The ones I spoke with, even Kim Scot when I talked to her this morning, and Bill Mead with Tehachapi News, their response was, and like I said again even Kim Scott's this morning was that they were not sure if they really had a story to cover because Bill Mead's answer was that there was no legal counsel involved. He was afraid of creating a scandal or something. 
Other speaker: Santa Barbara Savings I think is what they were scared of. Oh I'm sure. Most of them. I'm sure. They found out Santa Barbara Savings is in the complaint. Well he told me that he... That's advertising and the whole thing. 
Other speaker: He said he can't afford a lawsuit but is sur4e state of California can. Well he can’t afford to lose their advertising, that's what it comes down to. That's what all of them are scared of. Once you go after one of them, the others will join forces and pull their advertising.
Hatonn: That's why the only way that it can be done at all is by television or just a simple statement in the paper of what happened. You know, they can't have voice about it. All they can do is say, you know, this is not an editorial. This is a news coverage at this point. And this is the part that I hate to see.
That you do go out and you do make the calls and you have to realize that the whole world aren’t scared. 
Other speaker: As a matter of information, what university or law institution does this little pipsqueak hail from. USC? University of California, UC? 
Hatonn: I really would have to look for the scanners. 
Other speakers: That would help us if we knew where he had his background. That would give us a clue. Then we could go hire a lawyer who's smarter than he is. 
Other speaker: Maybe one that he didn’t get along with in school. Or in a classroom.
Hatonn: Well, he's only smart in his business. That's why they went to him. You have to keep that in mind. They went outside their own staff, and he is not necessarily a good lawyer, you witnessed that. He only knows technical loopholes. He has studied it. Every last detail. It is, he is not a good lawyer. 
Other speaker: Well, let's get someone who knows the technical loopholes and is a good lawyer. 
Hatonn: That's Carter. You see, the one that you know cannot hold a candle to him and he knows it. Wouldn't you expect someone coming right out of the same district owning a business that has to do with foreclosures and evictions and is a specialist in real estate law, and I'm talking about Steve Schaefer, wouldn't you think that he would know?
Other speaker: He should, but apparently, he doesn't.
Hatonn: Well, he would be very clever if he was having trouble like this to go dig up all the law. Yes, he should.
Other speaker: But he didn't want to dig up the law, I guess, because he wasn't involved very much.
Hatonn: It's always someone else's problem. 
Other speakers: It depends on how much money is available (unclear) , more than any lawyer usually is interested. Yeah, but I thought he was dedicated to the cause. He's not dedicated? 
Hatonn: No, he's never even said so, John. 
Other speaker: Oh, then I misinterpreted his intention.
Hatonn: He's Joe D. He wants to live out here. And he wants to change all of the rules and be on the board of supervisors and change Tehachapi.
Other speaker: Oh! 
Hatonn: And he likes me. 
Other speaker: So we'd have him all the time to fight with. 
26:37
Hatonn: Oh, we would have a great problem to rise above that, but we're going to have it anyway. He's going to live out here. I'm sorry, brothers. 
It's just, it's not like you think it is. And yes, we can talk until we're blue about we should go and hire this attorney. Dharma and Oberli cannot go hire anybody. And the way it is now, they can't even get a public defender.
Other Speaker: Eventually we're going to have to have topflight lawyers if we're going to build a city. We're going to have to have smarter ones than the opposition has. 
Hatonn: Yes.  
Other speaker: And we might as well start in and at least find out who they are. It doesn't cost to find out.
Hatonn: Well, maybe you start with someone like Linda. She's going to feel very bad about this. Steve's going to feel very bad about this. Somebody will at least find out what you do next. 
27:45
And then when you know what to do next, we decide how to do it. 
Other speaker: Well, this is part of the problem going up against any case in court. Not whether you've got a good lawyer, as such a lot of times, but whether the lawyer has a reputation that carries it for you, so to speak. 
Hatonn: No. It will try it in the public. And if you have one with that kind of reputation, he very likely will catch all the nitty because he wouldn't have built his reputation otherwise. But you saw today, you could have had a good attorney in there. But this man's for blood and he gets it on a technicality and the judge would be required to go with the law. 
Oberli: If Linda had been there today, we'd have had the same result. 
28:46
Other speaker: How do you deal with frustration in the fourth dimension? 
Hatonn: Sometimes I curse, sometimes I cry, sometimes I really get pissed off.(laughter)  I'm not restricted in the fourth dimension like I am on further up the line. Esu has total balance. He is a bit amused by this. That you ones could really, in the overall scheme of a world in transition, feel it's very important and yet it is extremely important. And yet he too irritates because it slows up the project. 
Other speaker: That’s the, that’s the kicker.
Hatonn: But if you don't stub your toes a little bit now, maybe you run into the brick wall out there later. And I know this feels like the brick wall today, but it's not.
Other speaker: Nothing's impossible. All we have to do is put it in our computer tonight and ask for a solution and see what we come up with.
Hatonn: Yes.  
(laughter and chatter) He said you do it John... You look at me, I'm trying to get a shirt with that warning. I know what you're saying, but you've got to understand what I'm trying to say too.
Hatonn: You may as well keep your sense of humor. 
Other speakersover : We don't seem to have much else. We‘re the last to go?!... Nothing is impossible. I just... It doesn't say it's forever, though. 
Hatonn: I'm having my own sense of humor: Until Wally McPherson evicts you, you’re an (unclear) there. You don't have any.
Other speaker: Yea well I was gonna  ask about Wally. That's another situation that's going to be similar, eventually. 
Other speaker: Do you think so? I don't think he'll be much of a problem. 
Hatonn: No one has taken his house off of the market. 
Other speakers: There's a lot of houses for sale. 
Hatonn: Yes, there are.  
Other speaker: And they're not as easy to get rid of. Not that when we bought it sat for a year. There's going to be another? (chatter, unclear)
Other speaker: No…At one point we're still going to have to build. It’s laugh or cry. 
Hatonn: Well there are hundreds of alternatives. Most of which you won't like. 
Other speakers: Sure, dig a hole on the side of the mountain …make some mud bricks….may have to open up some of these caves they have under… I have considered that It’s just the affording the gas to and from… give us the power to go to the fourth, and come back during the great time…yea just get us onboard, we’ll do the work up there..
Hatonn: It is easier up here 
Other speakers: (laughter) scanners… maybe even cure my arthritis if I can get up there..
Hatonn: Not necessarily, Eleanor
Eleanor:  Now he’s going to shoot me. 
Other speaker: She's taking her...
Hatonn: If you go totally, 100% into the fourth dimension, yes. 
Eleanor: You mean I've got to croak first? 
Hatonn: But if you plan to do something else in between, you may still… 
I have to go borrow bodies (chatter) but I know which one not to borrow now

Other speaker:  if I talk back to you 
Hatonn: Eleanor you know she's willing to share it I don't think I want it, you see. 
Eleanor: Well, you can help me get rid of it and then we can share it. 
Other speaker: Don't start it on that, Eleanor…. 
Other speaker: Well, is it still snowing? I don't know.
Hatonn: Well I’m at your disposal
Other speakers: I don’t know. Well, I imagine the snow melting on the ground.
Hatonn: Do you want me to stay or shall I go?
Oberli: Well we’ll have a meeting with Linda when we can. We'll go the next step from there. 
HAtonn: The first thing is don't... well, there's no... there's not even anything to do to panic. 
Oberli: We'll call Miss Kim tomorrow, tell her what happened, and keep her right up to the minute. 
Other speaker: Does she live here in town? 
Other speakers: No. Well, you'll have to do something or else get booted out of their house. There are techniques I thought she was telling you before Tom came, but there are. We've played the bankruptcy game and stuff. Okay, well just so you're confident, so we don't get the same judge and he'll throw us out twice in a row. 
Hatonn: Well you have a different jurisdiction, you have a different situation with bankruptcy. No, you've got... Oh, precious ones, this is only the beginning. I'm sorry. 
Other speakers: O don’t tell us that… We’ll have a lawsuit every week. Commander jeewiz! 
35:20
Hatonn: Don't you think you will try to be stopped? This is just a dwelling.
Precious ones, you will be, effort will be made to stop you, everything you do. You feel it go slowly. It does go slowly. Every effort of your dark brother is out there to try and stop you. We will just do it. It won't be easy, but you will get stronger. You will get stronger. And if you want to know how to really get damages, you just let them move your things into the street and then you go win that lawsuit. And I'll tell you, the Washington Post will be on your doorstep. 
Other speaker: And they would stand up for us against their own kind? 
Hatonn: No. Well, it's going to look pretty sick out there with your thing sitting in the snow. 
Other speaker: Yeah, but the news won't give you the publicity. You can't reach the public to let them know.
Hatonn: It becomes news. It starts as news, then it becomes someone's cause. Someone will eventually, as a consumer advocate, look into it. Who knows? Write to the bar association. Find out who around are attorneys. They're all over the place. Find out who you complain to and they'll tell you there's no one. The next one will say, well, maybe you write to somebody. Somewhere there is the answer on the human level amongst that group, of jackals. But you start with Miss Clark, and you tell her as sad as it was and she can then check with the judge and the ones in that county clerk's office. And then you can look sad and say where in the hell do we go from here? Where can we get a public defender?
Other speaker: If you give me a bit of a clue, I'll write a letter to Mr. Horowitz, but is it better to try to keep it very, very short and brief? Would that pique his interest if you don't go in now? You know, what will draw his attention? A three-page letter or a half-page and try to get him... Can you give me any indications there? 
Hatonn: You get it. Have you read today? 
Other speaker: today?
Hatonn: Have you read today's lesson this morning?
What you need is a brief Brief, and you need to cover the things, not anything about the purchase of this house, for instance. That isn't the point right now. The point is going into court and you could not get heard on technicalities. That there was no sale, and it has never even been allowed to come to hearing because of the law and a sick attorney. 
39:48
You want to pique their interest on something that is, could be a widespread, what would I call it, public issue. Could happen to you, Joe Blow, next door.
Other speaker: Well that's what I tried to do when I talked on the phone to those two. 
(phone call conversation in the background)
Hatonn: And you can be an incensed citizen.
Other speaker: That’s the way I came across.
Hatonn: “I went as a friend, I went again and I saw it happen again”. 
Other speaker: I’ll put that on paper as briefly as I can so that’s the best way to peak his interest I guess.
Other speaker: I suppose 60 minutes would be a little much. 
Hatonn: No, 60 minutes is absolutely right down the line.
Other speakers: They take letters in and if it becomes big enough then they move in on the story…I was just thinking that would be a good…
Can you…If we wrote to them, I’m just trying to see how far you can go, in need to help, if we send letters in like this, do you or can you peak their interest for us? 
Hatonn: Yes. 
Other speaker: Okay. Okay.
Other speaker: Of course Nate is a good one too. Yeah. Nate is 60 minutes, I never thought of that one. 20-20. A lot of times they will go after, they're not always afraid to go after big business. 2020 is pretty aggressive. Harald has a TV show, he wouldn't go after this would he? 
Hatonn: of course he would. 
Other speaker: He would? 
Hatonn: And you want something local you don't want to have to go all the way to New York for something. 
Other speaker: Where is he? Is he in L.A.? 
Hatonn: He is so bilious I don't think I could stand him. (laughter)
Other speakers: Bilious? (unclear)
Hatonn: I would tell you this. You can call Gloria Alred's office and you can find out who she would recommend. You know she's for women's rights. Well, we have half of this team is a woman.
Oberli: What is the objective? 
Hatonn: Getting you some help. 
Other speaker: Get the publicity the interest.
Hatonn: I'm trying to get you an attorney who has enough care about it to do it properly.
Oberli: If I were David Horowitz, why would I want to be involved in this? 
Hatonn: Why would you? 
Oberli: Who's doing who wrong?
Other speaker:  Well, David Horowitz carries, covers consumer misdeed, I mean business misdeeds to consumers usually that's where it comes from. Well isn't this it? Wouldn't that be down his line? 
Hatonn: How do you see it, Oberli?
Oberli: Huh? 
Hatonn: You asked that I'm asking you back. What's wrong with this case? Or what's right with it? If you feel it's fine and it's right. 
Oberli: I'm trying to figure out what our objective is. Are we trying to sue Santa Barbara Savings and get 30 million or some such number? 
Hatonn: What do you want to do? That's absolutely ridiculous. That's an impossibility. To prove that case is just out of the question. 
Hatonn: Well, that's over. You just said it. There's nothing impossible nor out of the question. Therefore, it's in your perception. Therefore, it is out of the question. 
Oberli: Well, thank you.
Hatonn: Now, what would you like to do, Oberli? What would you like to do about it? 
Oberli: I've told you several times what I'd like to do, and that didn't suit you. I'd like to get the damn matter settled. Down and somewhere around a hundred and seventy thousand so that we could make payments on the place and go along. 
Hatonn: And how do you propose to do it? It is not my fault that you don't have money. Now let's put it right there. Now you tell me how to do it and I'll be happy to go and talk to the banker.
Oberli: My expectation was that we would get some kind of a ruling that we could live here until the matter was settled. And we would have to go back through the whole procedure. And during that period of time, perhaps we could make a deal with them on a settlement. Now, I know you've been quite consistent and insistent that we could have this house for $100. And maybe we can, but right now that doesn't look too bright.
Hatonn: Oberli, it doesn’t matter whether it's a hundred dollars or a hundred and eighty-six thousand. You didn't get to bid. You couldn't have gotten it that day. Let's talk about what is. I consistently try to give you something to work toward. I believe that you wrote to them and they did not wish to discuss with you. 
Oberli: That's exactly correct. 
Hatonn: Now if you feel you don't have a case, we're wasting our time, you may as well move.
Oberli: I said we don't have a case on the 30 million. We, that’s just really difficult to prove that there was very much damage done by our not being able to go to Panama.
46:02 MEETING CONTINUES ON TAPE 890105-2a