890105-a

12-04-23
Dita

MEETING TAPE: G.C. Hatonn

POSTMORTEM OF DEFAULT TRIAL REGARDING EVICTION

0:00
Oberli: The 5th of January 1989, 
I suppose you'd call this a post-mortem of the default trial.
Greetings, Commander.
Good afternoon. Hatonn in light.
Oberli: Thank you.
0:15 
Hatonn: First let me tell you why the judge  kept asking when your attorney could be there: he knew there was a message. He heard that out of his ear when someone came looking for you. It just did not occur that he had not gotten the message, and that the message was that she would be there at four. He would have had that little rat there for that moment. Do we have a job to do, friends? Do all of us in this room see that we have a job to do? Yes? I have been ready.
Other speaker: Can you transform into cardboard boxes? (laughter)
1:30
Hatonn: It goes so far beyond it. It pains me you know to watch you ones, as you're having to open your eyes and realize that in the beautiful, beautiful land of freedom, you have none. In your pursuit of happiness and justice, you have no rights. And worse than that, the majority are so asleep, they don't even see. And ones can get up in your political master [... tape abruptly cuts back to the beginning at this point] 
Oberli: The 5th of January 1989. I suppose you'd call this a post-mortem of the default trial. [tape cuts away from the apparently unintentional duplication and resumes normally]
 Hatonn: There's always someone around unfortunately to make my point. And a year from now, whether you're here or elsewhere, it will not matter to you. You won't even remember probably the date. Things slip away from the memory so quickly. That’s why I would not mind standing by if one of you wishes to go and call the one from channel 29. Now you do have something to talk about. And you can refer them right over to the city building. Send them right in to interview Carol Williams for their background. These ones are accustomed to every now and then being on television. And you see, they don't have to talk about really a public sale. They will but they have just witnessed two trips from Bakersfield, inconvenient, take a day away from their business serving the city, to watch a fiasco like that, where a judge's hands are so tied that he could do nothing. And he knew he could do nothing. I hesitate putting you ones through this and quite frankly, the experience, and now more of you have witnessed it first hand. And those who would say to you, well why didn't you say such and such? Well why didn't you demand?
It says right in the Constitution. You would not have been hurt. The only thing different would have been out of courtesy the judge would have heard an attorney's petition for a continuance. It is my observation looking at the situation that it would have only made her stronger in your behalf and they will think of a way to get you heard. The court hearing would have gone no differently. He had come in with his slippery little technicality. They all knew you could not find an attorney and get the proper paper spotted in time on New Year's weekend. Had it been that you filed the right paper, I will guarantee you Mr. Horn would have had another technicality. To the extent that he was sure enough that he dared risk bringing that auctioneer. He knew if he didn't go on this basis, Brent would rule against him because you have a case. And he keeps telling you, you have a case. And Dharma keeps telling me, “But we don't have any money.” You have a case now that’s up to 30 million dollars. 200, let me put it this way: 11, is what he awarded today to that jerk?

Yes.

All right, so you have $30,211,000. Go get it. And if you don’t have it, what have you lost? There will be some good attorney who sees he has a case. And if you have to give him 50%? Well, it would be $30,211,000 you didn't already have anyway. We'll prolong getting you out of this house. And someone can go in and buy the house. We'll work on those contingencies as we come along. You will call Steve Schaefer. Now he is going to be really aggravated, too. 

Those poor little things in the court clerk's office did all they could. What the judge told you was that you had to file the correct answer, that you did not file before, asking to set aside this judgment of default. I want to tell you right now that Stephen Schaefer would not have done a correct set of documents. It might well be that in talking with Linda Carter, she might have seen through it, but not just coming to court on the last minute today. And you ones cannot believe how bad it is. You have to see it. There is nothing, most ones would not even bother to listen past the first two minutes of a news broadcast. There is nothing like sitting in that courtroom and watching that happen.

Can you imagine what it is when a man is sentenced to prison and to death for something he did not commit? Can you imagine what that would be? And it happens, friends, on the same damn technicalities. It has nothing to do with justice. Not one thing to do with justice. Who knows from justice no one was ever heard? I'm telling you now, you didn't even get into court. You didn't even get into court either day. It will show as a default judgment that you have no case you might as well have not been present. He said you didn't have to be there. He meant it. It would have gone the same either way. But you wouldn't be so smart. And worse, I'm telling you friends, it could be any one of you. Not just these two over a house. It could happen to any one of you. This is a nice judge, he bends over backwards to be fair. I would remind you, Lorena, of Charlie. It could as easily, one who just is along with a friend, can end up in prison. Paul [Doris' son] was terrified he was going to end up in jail for a period of time. And it was better to pull a trigger and kill himself than face the injustice of the system of the law! Now how does that make you feel? Well it makes a mother feel pretty damn bad. But you know what? We're putting a little starch in her backbone. Always the teachers were right. Always the police were right. What did you do? Doesn't matter what you do.

Sometimes if you really do something, it's better. At least you can justify it in your mind. And we don't ever deal with what if. We don't go back there and say well what if this and that, the day that you came and signed papers on this house. It doesn’t matter what if. You have a case, friends, on what is. Even if we didn't. Now let us have a little bit of discussion in this room. 
13:04
I didn't come to lecture. I came to answer questions. I saw the stark numbness in every one of you. I saw the disbelief. Lorena's little friend with a ticket. I saw disbelief. and of the realization In that judge. I'll tell you the judge is relieved to have it out of his hands. Because he knows you have a much bigger case.

And you ones are big enough for it. You are strong enough for it. We're not going to fold in any paper. We will open a way. We will find a way. And we start by bombarding the newspapers, the television. You now have time to write to David Horowitz, don't you?

Oberli: Yes.

Hatonn: You even have a better case. There's going to be a sign on the front door right between the "doves of peace". And I want a whole roll of film taken of it. And blown up. 
15:00
You cannot try for justice in the court of law. You're going to have to put it on trial, in the public paper. And somewhere there will be one who gets incensed enough. And judges do forget. They are so familiar, quote "with the law”, especially after a young whippersnapper tells them what it is.

It's like a mechanic who works on your car. He sees a carburetor every day. I hate to even think what Dharma would pull out of an engine if you said, bring me the carburetor. You might very well get the pistons. 

Other speaker: Or at least the spark plugs! 

Hatonn: Well, you certainly would not get a carburetor. She would come back probably with a distributor pack! And besides I let her off the hook.  She starts crying when I get here. I remove her emotions. And you all need a little break. Oh, she says I may cry anyway just to show you, you big bully. Well, relieve your tensions and then let's decide what we can do. I know you're all stunned.

Other speaker: Yep. I've never saw such a person all my life. Because you didn't do…

Well, number one, when he was doing those kids' cases or those people's cases, God, it was all a bunch of numbers. How the hell could you tell what they were doing?  And then you come out zero zero something or other, And zero zero zero something or other. And then you never knew what the hell he was talking about! And you could fight back on this one. And then you would look at the kid and go, "do you understand that?

And you're afraid to say no!?

Hatonn: Let me give you some sleazy little things. Now we're going to get down and play dirty. When you get a case, we'll have to really look very carefully with some good legal advice on how this should be filed. Whether you should make a criminal complaint or whether or not you should go ahead and sue. If you sue, you're very likely to win. If you get a federal complaint and it's prosecuted in the superior court system, you may send them to jail. That does not necessarily mean you get anything. So once again, you're going to have to make choices, which I find appalling. So you need a good attorney with some intelligence and the ability to check to find out what it is that gets you the most and then we can try the rest of it in the public and it can possibly go on into a criminal complaint by the court system itself of having broken the law. We'll have to see. There are so many hidden rules. But a good attorney is going to get this house for $100. There is no word minimum on that public safe document. There is to the highest bidder in cash or legal currency, legal documents, a draft. It has gone beyond even any need to prove you had money. That is no longer an issue at all. And what are they going to say? Well, we had it on the front steps. Ah, so! Isn't it handy that we had William Descari walk out there with you Overly? It's hearsay for Carol and the girls in her office who were frantically making calls to locate the sale that day. There's not a one in that building doesn't know these ones either. Now. But Carol would have to say to Mr. Horn, "well, no, I didn't go out there". Mr. Descari walked outside at no later than five minutes after ten. Do you think you could get all of this big hullabaloo over with and be sale made with three witnesses and a realtor? Inside or out without someone being seen? I dare say that a prosecutor might have a case because that's the only ground on which this man can speak. They have handled sales there afterwards. Isn't that interesting?

Mr.Descari said, well, "I noticed that they had a few there right after you were in". And now they've stopped again. Well, I bet they did. But he was certainly aware of it. How far would you guess his office is, Oberli? 

Oberli:20 feet is the hill to there.. which was quite a surprise to Mr. Descari. And Carol knew about it also. 

Hatonn:so it would be very hard to have anything out there without the ones in the commissioner’s office knowing it.

Oberli:Yes that’s right.

Other speaker: If it is going to snow, you're going to lose me real quick, Commander.

Hatonn: Go if you feel like it is  

Other speaker: Because I have a hard time getting into with big belly. I will catch up with all of you and if there's any... well of course, we will do what has to be done. 

Hatonn: Yes Lorena, we, well, you are well known around the town. Yep, we're going to let you flap your mouth a lot!!

Other speaker: I'm not going to take that picture with those DUMBs and that thing. 

Hatonn: We'll all line up.

Other speaker: We'll have to have the baby in that picture. 

Hatonn: Leave your minds open and flexible, you'll be getting a lot of ideas. You have a special one called Baba who will be giving you ideas. So listen. 

Other speaker: Yes, I have a special one named Baba. 

Hatonn: Yes, you do.

**Side note (room chatter, unclear)

Hatonn: If anyone else is uncomfortable about the roads I won’t keep you

Oberli: Ok I'm going to go.(laughs)

**Side note(Room chatter, not clear but some as follows) 

I wish I could get out there. Yeah, can I come around? Maybe he didn't have you locked in. I did. I think we got you locked in. I would be hiding there. Diane has to know. No, you don't have to. Diane's leaving with us well we can't stay as long or short I said she needed this input Oberli… Well, you look at it now. I told you. You won't be able to get down the driveway, huh? You can get down. You can always get up. We don't care about it. You can just slip by going up. We don't care about getting up.

Hatonn: Well we gotta stay for as long or as short. I said she needed this input, Oberli needed it.

Oberli: I think we all needed it.(unclear) I haven't even started my questions yet.

Hatonn: Well then you better get with the jargon.

**Side note (phone rings)(room chatter)

Hatonn: What time is it?

Oberli: I have five minutes to five.

Hatonn: I would like for Irene to call Liz and for Liz to call Jody and get Steve ready. We're going to go for all the time that we can, as in we can think at our leisure.

Oberli: I had spoken with Liz earlier today and I guess Steve and Jody have had quite a bit of conflict over this matter. 

Hatonn: Yes, I know. I'm finally going to get some response to something. 

Oberli: Well I think by darn it's time to get some funding in here.

Hatonn: I do too. Now someone tell me how you're going to do it.

Oberli: I would like to know how we're going to do it because it seems to me that you guys have all kinds of ways of screwing things up and causing all kinds of people to forget things and not do things. You surely must have the opposite of that. Now I think frankly that when you get through dinking around and are ready to let us have the funding to go ahead with this proposition that that's what's going to happen. And we'll just keep right on doing what we're trying to do, try to follow your directions until that happens. But let's not be pointing fingers at each other in the meantime. I am not going to suffer for Dharma's problems about Wally's situation. That's bullshit.

Hatonn: I'm interested in how you feel about it. 

Oberli: About what? 

Hatonn: The situation with Wally. Do you feel responsible? 

Oberli: Of course. 

Hatonn: Why? 

Oberli: Why shouldn't I?

Hatonn: Why should you? 
Oberli: Because I opened my big mouth and said that he would take care of it. 

Hatonn: Then why are you shouting at me son? Well I didn't think it would be so damn long before we got something to take care of. And now we're down to man versus brother. Do something damn it! Or what do you want me to do?
28:16
Oberli: I don't know whether I want you to do something or quit doing something. 

Hatonn: Well, are you going to have to make up your mind over it? There's a big difference in doing and not doing. I told you, your nerves are very, very short, all of you. 

Oberli: Let's get the money released, whether that requires doing something or not doing something, whether it requires me doing something or me not doing something. I don't care. I'm ready and willing to do anything you suggest to get the money coming. But it's time.

Hatonn: I've received that. I'm waiting. Let's hear it from somebody else.

 Other speaker: What happened to Otto? Isn't he supposed to be coming through eventually? We dug up the up-front money, we made it available, we sent it to him, we kept our end of the bargain. 

Hatonn: Would you like to respond, Oberli? Somehow you think I have those answers for you.

Other speaker: You seem to do pretty well. 

Oberli: Well, I can answer Otto's situation a little bit. 
30:00
Otto feels like he did not make an agreement to do the three million, he made an agreement and signed an agreement to do the thirty million. And that's coming along. The lawyer has sent me a copy of the first draft and we've been through about half of it on the telephone to correct it and tune it up. And the funding on that should be here around the first of, well let's say around the first of May, mid-April, the first of May. If it stays on track the way it looks like it can and there's nothing, no reason that it can't go right ahead. So that part of Otto's agreement was okay. The three million is a different proposition. Otto said that he would, he told Randall, he told me that he told Randall that he would try to arrange what he calls "bridge financing, the three million.

And he apparently contacted some of his friends and was unable to raise it before the first of the year. I spoke with Randall a day or two ago, and we decided that we would try him again now, after the first of the year, and try Otto on the same proposition. But Randall asked if it would be all right if he talked to him about it, and I said, sure, I'm going to talk to him about it too. 

Other speaker: Still better. Randall's not very honest. 

Oberli: That's the Otto situation, but I don't think that's the closest funding. Closest funding should be coming from John Jeffery. 
Frankly, Commander, I don't know why we're tangled up in renovating the United States justice system. 

Hatonn: You don't have to be. 

Oberli: Maybe it's a matter of... 

Hatonn: You're caught in it.

Oberli: Well, I'm sure. 

Hatonn: And you want me to accept the blame? 

Oberli: No, I don't understand why certain people cannot give us the correct advice.

Hatonn: Neither do I. I know that they don't. I certainly don't understand it either. 

Oberli: There were several people who could have given us the correct advice about filing a motion to remove the default. And the fact that that is a separate item. The judge didn't make that clear in the first place. The clerk didn't make it clear. Stephen didn't make it clear. So I don't understand why that little bit of information was hidden from all of those people who have some explanation. 

Hatonn: So you think that we hid it? 

Oberli: I know that you're perfectly capable.

Hatonn: Thank you. There's a big difference.

Oberli: How the hell would I know if you hid it or not? 

Other speaker: Well that judge didn't think that he... He thought he'd given you the information, but he hadn't. Al heard it himself. 

Oberli: Well you guys took the same notes I did and they didn't. 

Other speaker: I didn't say that. The first thing Al said, he didn't say that and he didn't. I think the dark forces are working in on us. 

Other speaker: Look, could you tell us whether this whole house situation, from the very beginning, was supposed to end up this way?

Hatonn: No. 

Other speaker: Or is it something that just happened? 

Hatonn: No, I cannot tell you. I'm not a fortune teller. I will give you assistance. I have a great thrust and you once have agreed to go along with it. It is no easier in my command. 

Other speaker: Well I can understand that, but the thing that has always bugged me about this is I thought we were supposed to come here and not change the government, but build a system to show people a better way if they want to follow it. 
35:00
It looks like we're being led down a path of trying to change government and prove a case, a law.

Hatonn: No, you're trying to save a house by public opinion. Well, And then you'll change the system. 

Other speaker: Well, that's what I haven't been able to comprehend in my mind. It's what you're stating here that I thought from what was stated before, we weren't supposed to use that system to do it by going to court type of thing, but build a city here, a better city. 

Hatonn: Tell me how else you do it.

Other speaker: Well, I'm just telling you what has been up in my mind. I'm not trying to argue or anything like that. I'm just, it's been hard for me to comprehend this whole thing. We're in a battle here with courts, when I thought our time was supposed to be spent on building the city. 

Oberli: Apparently we have to do both. Well obviously knowing what's wrong with the old system helps you develop a better new one. It seems out of step, out of sequence to me. So I'm always railing at you, about let me know what the hell's up ahead so I can get ready.

Hatonn: And I won't ever tell you. Because it's all in your head! And everyone in this room can throw that right back at me. Its all in there. Everyone in this room has all the answers to the questions that you ask of me. 
37:00
We shove them at you every way we can. And it gets accepted just like this. Let go back and look. Cannot man hold on to a thought? You see, you cannot look at one tiny segment of anything.

And as you ones come in to the realization of what is happening, it is dumbfounding to you. You are sheltered little children. You have hidden from the things that you do not like. Do you think its easy to get a planet through evolution? And do you think that all of your fellow men are going to play your game according to how you like it? I'm going to remind you of something. This is not to be painful or hurtful. This is to ease a little bit. Where were you Oberli when you moved to this place? Maybe it would help or do you want me just to tell the story? 

Oberli: Go ahead. 

Hatonn: You ones had been very hurt by the system out here as a matter of fact! What finally pushed you in? You’re saying I can't take it anymore. A three million dollar lawsuit did it. A couple of default judgments right out of Mojave because your attorney didn't bother to go to court or let you know there was even a hearing. And what was the response of the court at the time? "Too bad friend, you didn't show up, sue your attorney". No, I don't go about getting you into the trouble that you're in. I have gone about keeping you in this house for over a year and a half. And I will try to find you some method to keep you in here till we can get some funding or some solution. Otherwise you may have to move. And that is not my fault. I am not playing the role of God, you are God. And I don't want to be told to get it for you. And then you say well how do I get it then! Well you demand it! But is probably not Hatonn that you demand it from! And is it the money? Is it the funding? What was your commitment? You don't know what your commitment was because I'll tell you it was much shallower than any of you thought.

Whatever you want with me, Father, here it is. And then when we start telling you what it is that must be done, you don't like it. You don't like it if Otto doesn't come right through. Why didn't we get it all done yesterday? Because that is not the way it works and we're going to have to creep through it step by dragging miserable step, and I like it probably less than you ones. I have lost many crews on earth plane. Because we get to these points and ones start turning in their resignations right and left. This is not to lecture or hurt, it is to come to understandings. 

Oberli: I don't think you're going to get any resignation from this out there. 

Hatonn: No, I know I'm not. And I feel the frustration. And you lash out and you say, you. You're dealing with the probabilities and the changeabilities and the free will of men and you came up against the very thing that is destroying your world. And that poor little creature is innocent. He thinks he's a good attorney. This is a good example of the balance. Maybe you went through today so that you know you have a case and you get the best damned attorney there is, and you may have to pull it in by publicity. There is one thing more important than money, and very often it is ego. Someone who would love to take on that slick little biddy, that little banner rooster. But it's going to require that you ones do something, not turn it over to Hatonn or God.

You are God, what are you going to do about it? I'd like some suggestions. I'm tired of you ones: What are you going to do about it Hatonn? I'm asking you, what are you going to do about it? Anybody in this room. 

Other speaker: We have to have a real slick attorney smarter than that other guy. An attorney who works for the light. And got to have someone who wants to do it. So far, none of the people who've been around are very worth it. They don't want to take a chance. And I can't understand how our lady attorney left us in the lurch today, but she did! 

Hatonn: But she didn't!

Other speaker: She didn't? 

Hatonn: No! She called the court and said she could be there by four.

Oberli: Why didn't they tell us? 

Hatonn: AHO!

Other speaker: Bingo! 

Hatonn: That's why I say the judge heard someone come to the door and say something and he asked "when can your attorney be here" and Oberli didn't know nobody mentioned anything to these ones. She left word with the court and someone came to the door and the word never was gotten through. 

Other speaker: Whose fault would you say that was .. was it..the clerk? Or was it they didn't want us to get the message? 

Hatonn: Well, I didn't do it.

Other speaker: No, I didn't say you did. 

Hatonn: I hear you Al.

Other speaker: I'm just saying, whose fault was it? Was it the clerk? What did they make the effort? 

Hatonn: Your system is just no good. And I don't, I do not understand why the judge didn't say: Was there a message here?

Oberli: That's what I couldn't understand. If he knew about it, why didn't he indicate that there was a message?

Hatonn: Well, possibly. But you see, he would have had to hear it. And he may have just picked up a little bit of something. That girl may have come to the door and asked the bailiff: do you know?", and he probably, it was not directed to him. 

Other speaker: So he didn't take an interest in it, is what they didn't... 

Hatonn: Well, it's just a matter of, it fell through the cracks.

Oberli: That's right. 

Hatonn:  About all he could have done with the rulings as it was going, was simply made everybody wait here for, he could have done that. But you see, it was all set up already. Mr. Horn had it set up so there would be no hearing. 

Oberli: Would have had us on that technicality anyhow is that right?

Hatonn:  Well the way it stood. If It had been known that she was on her way and would be there at four, he might have made everybody wait. If nothing else…

47:00 MEETING CONTINUES ON TAPE 890105-1B