881213-3a

12-4-23
Susan

MEETING TRANSCRIPT:  G. C. HATONN

STORIES ABOUT THE “PHANTOM OF THE NORTH”

00:01
It's like the heart pump, whatever, anytime you have a steady flow without interruption, you don't obviously have a false beat. 
[other speaker] That's right. And it rotates till you have a solid flow again. 
[other speaker] As long as it doesn't cavitate, you're all right. [other speaker] That's right. Can you put enough horsepower to it, really give it thrust power? 
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. 
[other speaker] So you've got lots of push to it. 
They have more push more efficiency and make a propeller look silly. [other speaker] This is so new to me I haven't ever seen this. 
[other speaker] Does it pump air also?
[other speaker] Does it do what?  
It will pump anything. 
[other speaker] In other words you got a prop on the plane and you place it well? 
You would utilize it much as the turbine and a jet engine. It's complicated to do that.
[other speaker] They pump grain, crush coal, go to fish and things like that. Quite a pump. It has to be designed for particular applications. This isn't a pump you go down and buy at Jake's Harbor and say, hey, let's go do all these things. 
[other speaker] These are for a specific application? 
[other speaker] Yes, the basic principles are the same, but they have to be designed for that application program. 
Well, see, man is, you have all this competition, and man cannot get accustomed to the idea of change. Even a new concept or an old concept. It's like Mr. Edison and Mr. Tesla. Mr. Edison said that won't work and the world believed him. It's an interesting set of circumstances that man finds himself locked up into. There isn't any reason that a very small one of these pumps could work in your orchard. You can pump any kind of sludgy mud, any kind of water, any kind of alkaline water. Not going to eat up those pump blades. Once in motion, nothing touches it. 
[other speaker] It's got that little alley babby, which has just got a Honda engine on it. Any of us can pick it up. Go out in the orchard and if you've got a muddy pond or something you want to dry out, put it in. You can't do that with a lot of regular pumps. 
I just wonder if Rick is really thinking about blue green algae. [other speaker] Excuse me. I did not hear you. 
[Rick] Well, yes.
Thank you. One of your food substances would be cultured chlorella. [other speaker] Culture. 
And algae, blue green spirulina. 
[other speaker] Doesn't sound very appetizing but okay. 
Well, you can sure pump it with these pumps. 
[other speaker] That’s for sure. 
[other speaker] I thought of that then I thought of apple sauce.  
Are you going to be able to aerate your fish ponds? All you need is a cage of wire around it or something. Just keep the fish out of it. Although, if you use the proper size, they're not going to get any. Or if they do, the babies will go right on through it. 
[other speaker] Yeah, that's right. 
[other speaker] Imagine a little bug flying in your pit.
[group comments] You're right. Let's go down the slide. Gee whiz, Ma. Three little fishes in a little pond. 
[other speaker] Would you poke it out, chop it up out, alfalfa? 
I'd rip him off anything. Gravel, coal, you'll space the blades. [other speaker] Space the blade perfectly.
The blades, there are no fins, they are flat discs and part of your electrical production will come from the embedding of coiled wire on flat copper discs. Set up very much like a disc pump. And reverse they are generators. Very, very simple concept. 
[other speaker] Beautiful application in geothermal because a lot of the geothermal, as you know, down in the Corona and it's very corrosive. 
Oh, yes. 
[other speaker] Jake had a pump operating there for over a year. 
They can't keep the pump operable at 12 tons [undecipherable]. No, that's up there. And those pumps, most of the pumps used are Japanese pumps too. 
Now isn't it interesting, I know that all of you think when you do something that appears very simple and you say, well I needn't bother to take this course because somebody surely thought of this. Don't doubt on it. 
[other speaker] No, that's right. 
And if it is simple, and if there is much competition, you're going to have the same thrust of one out there telling people that that will not work. That is no good, you're being sold a bill of goods. If that was so good, the Japanese would be making it. Well, once they get the idea, believe it, they are. 
[other speaker] Do you like to hear an interesting story about Jake and the Canadians? 
Please, I love the story. I don't like just to talk all the time. [other speaker] Well, Jake about ten years ago was invited by a consortium of the oil companies. As you may or may not know, Calgary is called the Houston of the North. If you've ever been to Calgary, they have these tall buildings with so-and-so oil company here and so-and-so oil company here. And most of them, because of the weather, they'll have crossovers above the streets so that in the middle of the winter when, you know, it's just bitterly cold out there with the cold coming off the Rockies, you can walk around to different ones and be entirely comfortable. But anyhow, this group invited Jake to come up because they'd heard about his pumps down in Wyoming. He'd been doing some work down there. Well, he visited in the space of about four or five days. They sent a plane down to pick him up and take him back. In the space of about four or five days, he just literally wowed a whole bunch of these different companies. As Eddie know and Doris know, he's a very fine raconteur. He can tell a beautiful story and with great understanding because he knows so much of the details. So the upside of the thing is he left there with a proposal to bid, which meant, just send it in to us and let us know what it's going to cost, up to around $50,000. What am I saying, $50,000? I mean $3 million. So he went back and was ready to start rolling and that's when these mafia dudes came in and threw him out of the company. They thought, hey, look what we've got. And they couldn't swing it. The whole thing collapsed eventually over the next three or four years. They never did try to get into the Canadian situation. But that's the first occasion when Jake was known as the Phantom of the North. Well, this is a story on which I have copies of the things I'm going to tell you about. Last January of 88 this year Jake got another call from a group in Vancouver British Columbia. What's the same approach? We'd like you to come up here and talk to some of the some of the oil companies. So Jake went up at their expense and met this man who was very precise very autocratic, and said, Mr. Purcell, I'm going to send you my plane over to Calgary with three or four of my men. And what they're going to do is, they're just going to, when they get over there, they're just going to look around and select an oil company and we're going to go in and send you in there with them. You know, like throwing darts on the wall. So, Jake goes, well, all right, if you want me to. So, this is, mind you, about ten years after this prior occasion. So Jake went in. They were in there, the first company. They just selected a company off the bat. He didn't know who it was. They obviously had just decided it was Joe Blow, they'd go in and see him. Within a couple of hours, Jake had given his presentation and then he had an order for two pumps at around $50,000 a piece. Well, these guys, they were so amazed, they just could hardly believe it. So the next couple of hours they went to another company just across the way, and Jake sold another pump for around 50,000. Well, they were just outside of themselves. They got to the phone and called his boss back in Vancouver and told him about this already. Well, he said, you got time, try another one. So they tried another one. This time, it was Husky oil. Ho, ho, ho. And, uh, they went in and pretty soon, Jake had sold three pumps for sanded in wells. And one of the guys said to one of the Husky men, he said, say how many of these sanded in wells do you have? Because they have to close the well down once it's sanded. How many of these sealed up wells do you got? The guy said, oh, what do you think? Oh, about 500. Well, the whole crowd of them went back to Vancouver and reported to this boss of theirs. The boss said, well, we'll do something about it tomorrow morning. It's late. So the next day, they went on right on down to the bank and talked to the banker, brought out a check. It wasn't a cashier's check, it was a check for $600,000. For Jake to come back down here to San Diego and start building some prototype pumps for a specific purpose. Well, Jake, you know, could hardly stand it. It was really... After all, you don't often see a check made out to your name for $600,000.
Unhappily, after he deposited it, the report was the check was no good. Well, he thought, well, this has been the story of my life. And a day or two later, some of the royal mounted police that correspond to our FBI came in and said, we understand you just got a check from this organization. The upshot of the thing, he learned that the organization had access to a trust fund but it could not be used for this purpose. So it wasn't entirely illegitimate but it was a shenanigan that didn't work, let's put it that way. Well, so Jake tossed it off and decided this is just another one of the experiences in life because he's had quite a few like that. And about a week later he got a call from a guy who's... who's the movie actor that plays this Magnum PI? What's his name? 
[other speaker] Selleck. 
[other speaker] Tom Selleck. This man said, this Mr. Selleck. He said, I'm with Sustain & Justin Oil Company. He says, I was...you people made a presentation to us and we realized that something happened to that situation, but I want you to know we're really interested. And Jake said, what did you say your name was? He said, I think Mike Selleck. Jake says, well I know your brother Tom and they laughed, you know, and that kind of thing. But Jake finally said, Mr. Selleck, he said, if you're really serious about this conversation, would you write me a letter to that effect? So Mr. Selleck did write him a letter of which I have a copy. I've also got a copy of his $600,000 check. So Jake loves to tell this story, saying, the Phantom has returned. In other words, he was there 10 years ago, and he was there again just a year ago.
12:37
Then what I told you about that big corporation, that was when that really started to get, to heat up. And that's then brought you up to date as far as Canadian oil situation. Tremendous, tremendous prospect for Jake's pump just for downhole purposes alone. End of story. 
Well you're going to find a lot of uses for it, not the least of which is cement, friends. 
[other speaker] Oh yes, he has made a concrete pump. Beautiful concrete pump. 
[other speaker] I'm sure we could have used that sand pump at Fresno. Yeah. We could not get any of the pumps to sand. 
[other speaker] Is that right?
[other speaker] The holes and everything. 
[other speaker] Yeah. 
[other speaker] Jake, on special order, shut me off when you have heard enough of this, Jake, on special order for the Atomic Energy Commission at one of their big pumping plants, the prescribed, authorized, stamped organization had some problem and couldn't get a pump ready to go into one of the big nuclear reactors. And Jake, they told Jake what the problem was. He designed a pump and built it. I don't know whether Eddie Joe and Doris saw that or not because it was in his plant in one of the places. And it was a huge thing, relatively speaking. It was about three feet in diameter and the casing was solid heavy titanium or something of that order, not titanium, it wasn't titanium, it was a combination of a very special material. And he built it within a phenomenally short time compared to what these other companies could do. And he built it on time and without any certification, they accepted it and put it in. Now, of course, the big mystery, and I know the pump was there because I saw it, so I know that Jake delivered that pump and received money for it. But this typical Jake, he built beautiful prototypes, but he was an inventor. He never pursued anything from the point of view of production, never marketed. Always talked about it, but he was so fascinated with innovation, if you came in with a problem, when he was about to deliver a pump, he'd sit down and talk to you first. Honest, I've seen him do it. I've seen him do it. 
[other speaker] He wasn’t interested in the money,
[other speaker]So again, this situation is, I think, especially ripe for the kind of thing we're talking about. 
[other speaker] It sounds like it’s a natural. 
[other speaker]Jake's had all these vicissitudes because of this situation. 
Yes. I won't argue with that. 
[other speaker] Better to hear. 
[other speaker] You certainly could pump water with it if you had to. [other speaker] Well, Jake went to a water meeting, probably he's right there right now in Las Vegas. He said he and his wife are driving up to a pump show because he is interested. He's not really touched water. He's been on all these, shall we say, esoteric areas of pursuit. And, you know, there's a million water pumps in one kind or another, and he hasn't really touched that at all. These other areas are all kind of specialty things where his particular capability almost solely can take care.
This is why you're going to need some, I guess we'd call it uninterrupted sources of energy. You're going to have to have some big generators, standby, diesel. You're going to have the same problems that the coast is the first day. You're going to be needing to work out with your utility, just ask brother in the community, are we going to shift over from those windmills so that we have power in this town on short notice. 
[other speaker] Is there coal in this area? Is there any coal?
Not usable. Not yet. 
[other speaker] There must be some coal around here somewhere.
Well there is, but we're not going to really even think about that they use quite a lot of coal at the cement company but they ship it in. 
[other speaker] Yeah right. You will have every mineral that you need and that's why a lot of the land around I'm having these ones negotiate for it is not worth very much. Now you can graze a little bit of goats or sheep or cows but what you're needing it for are the elements. You have the very substances in different places around in this area from which we build our craft. So you could be self-sustaining here if you can get in operation you see. It does not require as much power to power, I'll call it for honor of him, a Purcell Pump as it does a bladed pump. You just don't have, once in motion it does not require the output of energy. So you're going to be able to find great savings by utilizing things like that that will maintain your reserves until other things can be built to function. [other speaker] Excuse me, Commander, what you're really saying is that this two cell pump requires less horsepower to drive it. Is that correct?
Yes. Yes. 
[other speaker] Yes, it's more efficient. 
Much more efficient. 
[other speaker] And in some cases, it's not in all cases. Well, but you have something that happens here. Once you have it into motion, and it is spinning, it acts almost as a suction. The propelling of the fluid through the blades causes it to rather pull itself along. A different principle from your blades, your fan blades. 
[other speaker] Almost like a cyclone pulling itself. 
Yes, yes, very similar. Depending on what it is you're pumping. 
[other speaker] Like taking a string and pulling it on a gyro top. Yes. Yes. 
[other speaker] To some degree, yes. 
So you, and any little bit of savings, you see, is going to help you. [other speaker] There's one other area, from the point of view of energy, that might have some application and that is I guess I'm not really talking face pump per se I'm talking energy source. Do you have do you have large solar availability here in this area if you do.
[other speaker] Lots of sunshine. 
[other speaker] That's what I'm talking about. 
Yes. Yes. And we are having these ones looking to... 
[other speaker] But you need space, too, because, of course, if you have large... if you have good... high concentration of sunshine per day, per year, and space to set it up, you can generate from that I was thinking of generating electricity in order to form hydrogen. Because... 
[other speaker] Say again please.
[other speaker] Are you going to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen? 
[other speaker] Yes, and there are some other principles that I'm not too familiar with where they can generate hydrogen rather than just electrolysis of water. But in any event, let us say we're going to do that. Now, it's a costly process in the sense of using the electrical energy, but it has applications from the point of view of running engines, like running trucks and automobiles and things of that sort in conjunction with your diesel fuel. And it can be stored, it can be piped. A lot of people throw up their hands in horror because they think of the explosive aspects of hydrogen. But studies have shown that, for example, Rocketdyne, who is most experienced in the use of hydrogen because of their weapons work, has never had a real accident in hydrogen because it's always going overhead rather than lying down around the body or the feet because of its lightness. So they have really said that we could probably shift to a hydrogen instead of a gasoline energy society because we have the pipeline systems already built. 
[John] If we can get free energy, we don't have to fool with that junk. Electrical, free electrical energy.
[other speaker] I'm sorry, John, I can't hear you. 
[John] If we can get free electrical energy, we wouldn't have to fool with hydrogen.
[other speaker] Well, I'm thinking of it in terms of being available for storage for automobiles and trucks and things, as opposed to your electrical energy directly.
23:17 
So I work with hydrogen. It takes five inch thick walls, steel walls for heat transfer equipment. 
[other speaker] Yes, but you don't necessarily have to compress it. You don't necessarily have to liquefy it. 
[other speaker] You get it up to about 10,000, 15,000 pounds per square inch. 
[other speaker] Well, that's for liquefaction, though, is it not?
[other speaker] Yeah. 
[other speaker] See, I'm talking about pumping hydrogen at some modest pressures, but not certainly liquefying. Anyhow, it's just a thought. 
[other speaker] That's an idea. 
[other speaker] We shouldn't overlook it. 
[other speaker] It's coming online now, you know, they're talking about hydrogen propelled aircraft now. 
[other speaker] Hypersonic. 
[other speaker] Are they? 
[other speaker] Yes. It was in the SAE Journal about two months ago.
[other speaker] Okay. 
Well, you have plenty of it around. 
[other speaker] Oh, excuse me, plenty of what? 
Hydrogen. 
[other speaker] Oh, yes, indeed. And non-polluting when it burns too, kids.
[other speaker]  That's right, water. 
[other speaker] That's right, you just sprinkle the air. 
[other speaker]Can't get rain any other way, you just have enough planes flying around burning it. 
[other speaker] That's right.
Well, your problem is the oil companies are not going to let you do it. 
[other speaker] I don't know. 
At least not yet. 
[other speaker] I don't know. I just have a feeling that the supremacy of the oil companies is on the wane. 
Well, unfortunately they are controlled by the gray men. 
[other speaker] Commander, do you think that the oil companies are going to have as much power as they have now, say, eight years from now when things really get disrupted economically? 
[other speaker] Well, eight years may, I don't know how to talk time. Eight years may be a short time so that the changes might not be dramatic, but I think... 
[other speaker] Well, the earth changes are going to really disrupt them.
[other speaker] That's right. That's my... 
You'll have this happening first. Because of the greed involved, you will be told there is great, great shortage. 
[other speaker] Yeah, just like they did before. 
Just exactly like they did before. There's truly a glut. But you will be told that it is scarce. The price will skyrocket and it will, if it is not rationed, it will be long lines back to the little cars. They will play their hand at this. While they are doing this and while it is a favored subject of the government, what can we do about this gas shortage? They will re-institute some of your alternative energy premiums, benefits. So there will come another series of time where you'll get even a little bit of governmental help. But once again, you're going to have the frauds that come in with the poor equipment because it will be a tax shelter. But in the guise of while all of this is in upheaval, you will be able to do quite a lot of building and some good products will come forth. 
[other speaker] Yeah, we've got a good start. 
What they're just about to do, you see, is back themselves into a corner. Eventually, and this is very true of the American human, he works better under duress, he will unify in crisis and they become very innovative, if they aren't careful, man will come forth with something that puts them out of business and they'll be hacked while they're playing their own greedy game. And when it comes forth in massive way, you're safe. They'll almost have to get on the bandwagon just as they have with some of these solar installations. Mm-hmm. Photovoltaic sets. If they want to be in the game, they've got to play the game. But this is why you don't want the magnificent machinery to come forth, because they will take it, and then it will be controlled. And if it causes them too much grief it will be taken and put aside, and you won't be able to do anything about it. It's happened over and over and over again. They'll tell you that it didn't work. You'll get all sorts of answers. 
[other speaker] Well, we can't disregard the impetus that was given at the last time to these new sources. 
That's right. 
[[other speaker] And so many of them have sustained and grown, not the least of which is the conversion of corn to alcohol. 
Yes, and we have one in our circle, in our group, who comes now to grow apples, but he's very instrumental and very knowledgeable about biomass. 
[other speaker] Uh, growing apples for what purpose? 
For food.
[other speaker] Oh. 
Here in this little town. 
[other speaker] Okay. 
[other speaker] And it's a good apple. 
[other speaker] Is it? 
[other speaker] Uh-huh. 
And like so many others, this precious one lost his shirt in that business. But it would be worth it to him because he would be able to re-utilize that information. You can have a lot of cellulose, a lot of biodegradable matter from thieves. That really is not too good to plow under. Doesn't do very much. 
[other speaker] I can't remember. I made a proposal to the government during that period based on the planting, here I'm having trouble remembering the name of the material, but it's a plant that's widely used in the tropics and it is a carbohydrate, not a protein unfortunately, but it has, percentage-wise, it's the plant from which tapioca comes. I almost said it. I'll think about it.
[other speakers back and forth] Taro? Huh? Taro? Excuse me. Is it a taro? No. 
[other speaker] No, it's not that. But it's all, I've, I got into this to such a degree, if I could have gotten a contract, I was going to go down near Brownsville where there was a lot of land that was owned by the ranchers that they did nothing with except let the cattle roam. And what they were really doing, they were saving it for potential oil underground. It's the plant, as I say, from which tapioca comes, and I'm sorry I can't recall at the moment. But it's widely... 
[other speaker] I read that years ago, but I can't remember. 
[other speaker] But it's carbohydrate density per acreage is much higher than corn or any of those things. 
31:23